Have we ever been in a worse car buying era I don't know where to turn next.

Barkin

henry24 said:

Just been reading though some posts from the last couple of days and one I find hard to believe, the poster says that there is less than 8000 petrol/diesel pumps compared to 10x or 80000 ev charges. Is this correct?

No!

According to statista there are some 8300+ filling stations in the UK.

I suspect that most of them have more than one pump... 

Herzlos

Barkin said:

henry24 said:

Just been reading though some posts from the last couple of days and one I find hard to believe, the poster says that there is less than 8000 petrol/diesel pumps compared to 10x or 80000 ev charges. Is this correct?

No!

According to statista there are some 8300+ filling stations in the UK.

I suspect that most of them have more than one pump... 

In contrast there are 37,000 public charging locations (104,000 chargers) [ https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/how-many-charging-points ] and growing rapidly. Not including any private set-ups or granny charging.

So there are only 4.5x more EV charging sites that petrol filling sites. It'll easily surpass the 10x figure by the time the ban kicks in given that we're going to see a lot more petrol stations close than open.

Charging time and some niche edge cases notwithstanding, it's objectively easier to find somewhere to charge than somewhere to top up with petrol. Plus in a push you can turn petrol into electricity but not the reverse.

born_again

[Deleted User] said:

born_again said:

TooManyPoints said:

I wouldn't trust a newspaper to review a video game in the same way I wouldn't trust them to review a car, I would go to the relevant publication to get a balanced opinion. 

But newspapers were not specifically mentioned. I agree that one has to be a little circumspect when reading them, especially when making a decision to part with a sizeable sum of dosh, But Spies only mentioned  "the media" which I assume would include your relevant publication. If by "the media" Spies meant only publications whose views he did not agree with, he should have said so.

Newspapers are not going to run headlines such as "I took delivery of my new EV and I am absolutely delighted with it." It doesn't sell papers. They only want "man bites dog" stories.

There is no doubt that at some point (though I do not think it will be as soon as some believe) it will no longer be possible to buy an  IC car. Many people do not like being told what they can and cannot buy when they can see no point in making such a restriction. That's why papers headline stories such as "Mum with two kids in her EV runs out of juice on the busy M6". It grabs people's attention far more than "Man drives from Birmingham to Manchester in his EV with no problems whatsoever."

Which is just like this story 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/electric-car-motorway-driver-nathan-owen-jaguar-ipace-b1143726.html

Which ended with

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/driver-arrested-after-runaway-electric-car-stopped-by-police

A driver caught out lying to try & save their skin

Media had a field day about it, but next to no coverage when the truth outed in the main stream media. 🤷‍♀️

I am not sure that I understand. He called 999, 8 police cars boxed him in causing damage. What was in it for him? 

He knew they had clocked him speeding before he rung in.. So was looking for a out 😒

born_again

Barkin said:

henry24 said:

Just been reading though some posts from the last couple of days and one I find hard to believe, the poster says that there is less than 8000 petrol/diesel pumps compared to 10x or 80000 ev charges. Is this correct?

No!

According to statista there are some 8300+ filling stations in the UK.

I suspect that most of them have more than one pump... 

In 2023 
https://www.statista.com/statistics/312331/number-of-petrol-stations-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/#:~:text=Number of petrol stations in,Kingdom (UK) 2000-2023&text=The United Kingdom is home,stations and those under development.

So over a year out of date. 36% decline since 2020. Yes most will have more than 1 pump. How many are open 24/7?


Charge points which is linked by another user

At the end of December 2024 (more upto date), there were 73,699 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 37,011 charging locations and 108,410 connectors.

Last month, 1,105 net new charging devices were added to the Zapmap database.

All open 24/7

However, many homes are unsuitable for charging an EV. For example, Lloyds Bank says that 44% of UK homes are unsuitable for charging an EV

So taking that, then 56 can charge at home. Of which many will never charge anywhere else. 

Northern_Wanderer

There appears to be issues with trading in an EV. As in, people are finding that some car dealers don't want them. Since the battery has a relatively short lifespan and the cost to replace it will be in the thousands, no dealer will want to be taking the hit on having to replace a battery on a used EV.....just as a new owner wouldn't want to either, or even an owner that's had it from new.... But perhaps this is a form of built in obsolescense? Which kind of proves that net zero is Greenwashing.

Herzlos

Modern EV batteries are lasting as long as petrol engines are.

That doesn't mean all dealers want them, or won't use that as an excuse to under pay on a trade in.

Northern_Wanderer

Herzlos said:

Modern EV batteries are lasting as long as petrol engines are.

Will EV battery last as long as a Honda ICE engine?

WellKnownSid

Northern_Wanderer said:

Herzlos said:

Modern EV batteries are lasting as long as petrol engines are.

Will EV battery last as long as a Honda ICE engine?

NMC batteries should get 1,000 full cycles out of them before they start going into decline.  So around 200-250,000 miles. At this point they are still worth £000s as static batteries which is where they typically get recycled - certainly more than a 250,000 mile Honda.

LFP batteries e.g. standard range MG4 should get 3-5,000 full cycles out of them, which is where the likes of Tesla are now thinking in terms of the million mile battery.

As with everything, your mileage may vary.  There will always be a tiny number of batteries which fail early (as will engines) - thankfully a 100,000 mile / 8 year warranty that most traction batteries enjoy largely covers that scenario.

If you're cycling your EV battery between say 40 and 70% by charging at home then there will be much less wear on the cells and you'll see much longer life.  Think of the Lithium Ion packs in mild hybrids - quoted for a life of around 50,000 cycles based upon that narrower range.

50,000 cycles at 40% to 70% SoC (say around 60 miles) - by charging at home with a charger like an Ohme which talks to your car and optimises for battery health - you will hit the situation where the car dies of terminal corrosion long before the battery pack fails.

Hoenir

WellKnownSid said:

Hoenir said:

motorguy said:

Hoenir said:

motorguy said:

WellKnownSid said:

motorguy said:

henry24 said:

But isn't that the problem the government are stopping people from driving ICE cars and forcing them into EVs they don't want 

No.

Exactly as booner said - from 2035 (so ten years from now) new ICE cars will be banned.  No one is stopping anyone driving ICE cars after that point, just that you wont be able to buy a brand new one.

Indeed.  Given the average life of a car is 16 years, those that want to can still be happily chugging around in a fossil car until at least 2051.  By which time petrol will only be available in cartons from a hardware store at £95 a litre, and you probably won't be allowed to drive one in any town or city due to emissions, noise, etc, but hey-ho.

Yes, we'll see then how many of these supposed nay saying ICE die hards can suddenly make EVs work for them.

Why is Tesla so reluctant to launch a "people's" car?  Damage it's profit margins?  Blow away the mystic that surrounds the brand making it a must have accessory for the rich. 

Like any car brand they have a target market.

Lets be honest though, they're not going to compete with the chinese on cheap EVs.  Thats where your "peoples car" comes in to play.

Also whats the average PCP and fuel cost of a new car these days?  I'd wager its an easy £350 a month plus deposit and maybe £200 a month on fuel, so £550 a month.  Tesla will lease you a brand new Tesla Model £300 for £500 a month.

£300 to lease a new Tesla ? No chance. Perhaps for a 4/5 year old ex company car. That's been treated like a F1 car. Also will require a hefty depost of at least £3k. With an annual mileage restriction. 

What was being said was that you can lease a Tesla M3 for £500 a month and save £200 a month on fuel so it's really costing £300 a month.

Same as our car.  The Daily Mail sponsored the depreciation, the Scottish Government are paying the interest and also funded the EVSE, EON are essentially paying for the capital cost of the car.  We'll pay £190 a year when we renew the road tax (sic) in 2026 but it's small beans in comparison.

Yes, that wheeze will be ironed out by successive governments by which time we'll be on our second or third EV.

Which still totally ignores the insurance issue.  

No one has yet come up with a solution to replacing fuel duty either. 
 

MeteredOut

Nobbie1967 said:

I wonder if anyone has developed a smartphone app that would track your car use to suggest how suitable an EV would be for you? It could record length of journeys, stopping times etc so you would know how often range was likely to be an issue. Some people may over estimate how often they need a big range. Would also be useful when looking at which battery size would suit you best.

It could also track likely costs using available info on rates for home and public charging, depreciation, insurance, tax etc.

https://www.ev8-tech.com/products-services/

Though its aimed at business rather than individuals.