Have we ever been in a worse car buying era I don't know where to turn next.

motorguy

Car_54 said:

motorguy said:

henry24 said:

But isn't that the problem the government are stopping people from driving ICE cars and forcing them into EVs they don't want 

No.

Exactly as booner said - from 2035 (so ten years from now) new ICE cars will be banned.  No one is stopping anyone driving ICE cars after that point, just that you wont be able to buy a brand new one

If the 2035 deadline remains in place, then I don't imagine any maker will still be churning out ICE cars up to the end of 2034. The realistic end of new ICE cars will be some years ahead of that.

Well thats in to crystal ball territory isnt it?  My view would be if they're selling, they'll make them.  And if they're not selling, well, all those sceptics have been converted?

Even take 2030, theres no reason to believe a new ICE car bought in 2030 wouldnt be viable until at least 2045.  Of course thats not including edge cases of OAPs who require cars to do 25,000 a year....

WellKnownSid

henry24 said:

The government telling me I can't buy a new one would be stopping me I currently do around 25000 miles a year 

A Tesla would be a great choice then... after two years and 110,000 miles (including 22MWh of rapid charging) the battery is still at 95% SoH.  

Never had a service - only maintenance was to top up the washer fluid and he replaced the cabin filter at 92k miles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJtVeZ4GSIU

Herzlos

Bonniepurple said:

I have also just looked up the latest WAV equivalent in electric.  I drive a 7 seater Peugeot Expert Independence, automatic diesel.  Although I’ve never tested it to the limit, I should be able to get 620+milles out of a full tank.  Motability are offering a 7 seater Vauxhall Vivaro with ramp.  Range-85 miles.  That’s presumably empty.  Reduce it to say 60 with a couple of adults and a wheelchair, down to 30 if it’s cold.  Not very practical.

That's odd, because the standard Vivaro has a range of about 140 and I can't imagie the ramp conversion will have that much of an impact. Annoyingly, the van version has an optionally bigger battery not available in the car version too.

But even then 140 mile range of a big MPV is crap since it'd be an ideal airport taxi etc if it had more range.

Ectophile

I'd be embarrassed to be seen driving a Tesla these days, on account of the company's main owner.  There are plenty of other manufacturers.

WellKnownSid

Ectophile said:

I'd be embarrassed to be seen driving a Tesla these days, on account of the company's main owner.  There are plenty of other manufacturers.

What about an Audi? Oh, yeah - Rupert Stadler
A nice VW?  Martin Winterkorn of course
A trusty Nissan? Carlos Ghosn!

shinytop

WellKnownSid said:

Ectophile said:

I'd be embarrassed to be seen driving a Tesla these days, on account of the company's main owner.  There are plenty of other manufacturers.

What about an Audi? Oh, yeah - Rupert Stadler
A nice VW?  Martin Winterkorn of course
A trusty Nissan? Carlos Ghosn!

They were all sacked years ago; Elmo's still there.

Herzlos

HHarry said:

Herzlos said:

HHarry said:

Herzlos said:

It may only take me 5 minutes to refill the car with diesel, but the equivelant charging would take me maybe 30 seconds in total of person time (and maybe 10 hours of car-sat-on-driveway time).

 That is a ridiculous statement.

What's ridiculous about it? 

How long do you reckon you actively spend charging your phone over a week? Do you stare at it for 2 hours every day?

Realistically with a home charger (my example), I'd park, plug it in whilst walking past and forget about it until I use the car next. Assuming that takes as long as 10 seconds to plug in, 3 times, then that's all the time I spent on it. How long the car takes to charge given it'll sit on my driveway without moving for 18 hours is pretty much irrelevant.

Even if it somehow took me a full minute, assuming I need to stow the cable in the boot, configure an app or whaever, that's still going to compare favourably to the time taken going to get diesel even if there's no traffic or queue. It took me 10 minutes earlier and it was raining.

If I was talking about refuelling at a motorway stop it'd be a different matter altogether, where ICE clearly wins, but that's not the case here.

 How long does it take to boil an egg?  Oh, just the 10 seconds it takes to get an egg from the fridge and put it in my pan.

 

I think it's important to clarify that there are more than 1 type of time in play here. There's "user time" and "elasped time", and the big issue that the EV haters seem to struggle with is that they are the same thing with combustion and the perception that EV is different is bad and therefore wrong.

In simple terms, user time is how much time the user needs to be involved, and elapsed time is the time needed for the process to complete.

With a petrol pump, since you can't walk away from any step of the process, if it takes 10 minutes you need to spend all 10 minutes doing it.

With anything that involves a battery charge, it may take several hours (elapsed time) but since you don't need to actively do anything for it, the user time is minimal (say 1 minute).

Using the above example, my car has been sat on my driveway for about 18 hours at this point, so if it was electric and I'd plugged it in it'd be fully charged. But since it's diesel, if I want it to be fully fuelled I'll need to go out and actively fill it up. That'll take me far longer than I'd have spent connecting and disconnecting the plug, thus an electric car would have been more convenient.

So a 8-hour charge time sounds terrible, BUT if that 8 hours is happening at some point where you don't need the car, it's essentially free from a user perspective. You plug it in, go do something, and it's ready.

There's a risk that if you return home with an empty battery, that you'll need to wait some time before you can use it again. But unless you're going to use the full battery again, you probably don't need to wait for it to fully charge. So it's entirely possible that it'll have enough charge by the time you need it next assuming it's not immediately. 

In the worst case you may need to home charge it with enough to get it to a fast charger to get it to 80% range in ~15-30 mins.

With bigger batteries and faster charging it's less likely that'll actually occur. Most people won't come close to depleting the battery on a daily basis, so never really need to worry about the car being unusable at short notice. I don't believe it's something that EV owners actually worry about.

born_again

jeffuk said:

How many hours a day do you drive your car?

Between 1 and 9 hours.

Do you drive while you are sleeping?

So your car spends between 23 & 15 hours stood doing nothing. 

So that would be a 100kWh battery could be charged in 15 hours.. Not many cars have that size battery 🤷‍♀️

born_again

Ectophile said:

I'd be embarrassed to be seen driving a Tesla these days, on account of the company's main owner.  There are plenty of other manufacturers.

Figurehead does not make the cars. 

jeffuk

born_again said:

jeffuk said:

How many hours a day do you drive your car?

Between 1 and 9 hours.

Do you drive while you are sleeping?

So your car spends between 23 & 15 hours stood doing nothing. 

So that would be a 100kWh battery could be charged in 15 hours.. Not many cars have that size battery 🤷‍♀️

I don't have access to home charging, if I did an EV would be perfect for me.