Have we ever been in a worse car buying era I don't know where to turn next.

WellKnownSid

henry24 said:

So when the price here is around 17p maybe more people will change to EVs

Which kind of explains why those of us paying 6.7p at home are super keen and can't work out why more aren't doing it whilst those faced with having to pay 60-70-80p plus can't see the point.

Herzlos

letom said:

Product A - gets you from A to B, range is no issue

Product B - here's 2 paragraphs about why range is fine for most, with caveats about distance and how long it needs to charge

If you can charge passively somewhere and aren't trying to exceed the range in a single journey often, then EV can be more convnient than ICE - you don't need to go and queue at a dirty petrol station. Plug it in wherever is convenient in what, 5 seconds, and then use it. No fuss, no wailing on moaning on the internet.

I say this as an ICE owner who has a a series of long drives over the next few days and about 1/4 a tank of diesel. I was going to refill it when at the shops but something came up so I'll need to make a separate 2 mile round trip just to put fuel in. If I had the EV version it'd have been fully charged between each journey.

It may only take me 5 minutes to refill the car with diesel, but the equivelant charging would take me maybe 30 seconds in total of person time (and maybe 10 hours of car-sat-on-driveway time).


For almost everyone, electric vehicles are better in every way to combustion. As long as you don't mind being woke, or whatever the rage-de-jour is.

HHarry

Herzlos said:

It may only take me 5 minutes to refill the car with diesel, but the equivelant charging would take me maybe 30 seconds in total of person time (and maybe 10 hours of car-sat-on-driveway time).

 That is a ridiculous statement.

Herzlos

HHarry said:

Herzlos said:

It may only take me 5 minutes to refill the car with diesel, but the equivelant charging would take me maybe 30 seconds in total of person time (and maybe 10 hours of car-sat-on-driveway time).

 That is a ridiculous statement.

What's ridiculous about it? 

How long do you reckon you actively spend charging your phone over a week? Do you stare at it for 2 hours every day?

Realistically with a home charger (my example), I'd park, plug it in whilst walking past and forget about it until I use the car next. Assuming that takes as long as 10 seconds to plug in, 3 times, then that's all the time I spent on it. How long the car takes to charge given it'll sit on my driveway without moving for 18 hours is pretty much irrelevant.

Even if it somehow took me a full minute, assuming I need to stow the cable in the boot, configure an app or whaever, that's still going to compare favourably to the time taken going to get diesel even if there's no traffic or queue. It took me 10 minutes earlier and it was raining.

If I was talking about refuelling at a motorway stop it'd be a different matter altogether, where ICE clearly wins, but that's not the case here.

jeffuk

Herzlos said:

HHarry said:

Herzlos said:

It may only take me 5 minutes to refill the car with diesel, but the equivelant charging would take me maybe 30 seconds in total of person time (and maybe 10 hours of car-sat-on-driveway time).

 That is a ridiculous statement.

What's ridiculous about it? 

How long do you reckon you actively spend charging your phone over a week? Do you stare at it for 2 hours every day?

No, I can use my phone while it charges.

MeteredOut

jeffuk said:

Herzlos said:

HHarry said:

Herzlos said:

It may only take me 5 minutes to refill the car with diesel, but the equivelant charging would take me maybe 30 seconds in total of person time (and maybe 10 hours of car-sat-on-driveway time).

 That is a ridiculous statement.

What's ridiculous about it? 

How long do you reckon you actively spend charging your phone over a week? Do you stare at it for 2 hours every day?

No, I can use my phone while it charges.

How many hours a day do you drive your car?

jeffuk

MeteredOut said:

jeffuk said:

Herzlos said:

HHarry said:

Herzlos said:

It may only take me 5 minutes to refill the car with diesel, but the equivelant charging would take me maybe 30 seconds in total of person time (and maybe 10 hours of car-sat-on-driveway time).

 That is a ridiculous statement.

What's ridiculous about it? 

How long do you reckon you actively spend charging your phone over a week? Do you stare at it for 2 hours every day?

No, I can use my phone while it charges.

How many hours a day do you drive your car?

Between 1 and 9 hours.

MeteredOut

jeffuk said:

MeteredOut said:

jeffuk said:

Herzlos said:

HHarry said:

Herzlos said:

It may only take me 5 minutes to refill the car with diesel, but the equivelant charging would take me maybe 30 seconds in total of person time (and maybe 10 hours of car-sat-on-driveway time).

 That is a ridiculous statement.

What's ridiculous about it? 

How long do you reckon you actively spend charging your phone over a week? Do you stare at it for 2 hours every day?

No, I can use my phone while it charges.

How many hours a day do you drive your car?

Between 1 and 9 hours.

So, plenty of time to charge it at home then, if you so wished (assuming you have an EV and ability to charge at home - but I suspect we already know the answer to both)

Bonniepurple

I think that there’s a balance to be had.  As someone mentioned up thread, burning fossil fuels is obviously not going to be an option for much longer, but is mining various minerals out of the ground in countries which have more questionable employment and environmental laws much better?  EVs are currently suitable for some people, but not all.  My brother is looking to get an EV but not yet as his new house doesn’t have off street parking at the moment.  For me, it’s a combination of range anxiety (we’ve all seen how a phone can go from 40% to sudden death in extreme temperatures or when the battery degrades!) and weight restrictions.  I use a power chair and have a wheelchair accessible vehicle with a ramp.  I don’t know how much extra weight the battery would add, but I suspect it would, with my chair, family (and luggage if going away) push me to be very close to my 3.5 tonne maximum.

I have also just looked up the latest WAV equivalent in electric.  I drive a 7 seater Peugeot Expert Independence, automatic diesel.  Although I’ve never tested it to the limit, I should be able to get 620+milles out of a full tank.  Motability are offering a 7 seater Vauxhall Vivaro with ramp.  Range-85 miles.  That’s presumably empty.  Reduce it to say 60 with a couple of adults and a wheelchair, down to 30 if it’s cold.  Not very practical.

Mildly_Miffed

Bonniepurple said:

I think that there’s a balance to be had.  As someone mentioned up thread, burning fossil fuels is obviously not going to be an option for much longer, but is mining various minerals out of the ground in countries which have more questionable employment and environmental laws much better?

Remember that the majority of lithium cells produced in the world go into things other than BEVs/PHEVs.

They go into laptops, mobile phones, tablets, rechargeable powertools, torches, disposable vapes, etc etc etc.

As of a year or so ago, I think it was about a quarter went into vehicles. That may have changed slightly, but production of all the other consumer-durable toot will have increased, too.