Have we ever been in a worse car buying era I don't know where to turn next.

Car_54

Baldytyke88 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Emmia said:

The main issue with more chargers is the current grid can't cope, and changes in how electricity is generated, means the current grid is not really configured in the right way.

National Grid seem unbothered.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

Remember that total electricity consumption in the UK used to be a third higher than currently, and has dropped over the last couple of decades thanks to energy efficiency.

Peak of over 406TWh in 2005, down to 310TWh last year.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/323381/total-demand-for-electricity-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

But we don't make things anymore.

Really? That will come as news to the c.200,000 people making cars.

 "Over 905,117 cars, 120,357 commercial vehicles and 1.62 million engines were built in the UK in 2023.

Eight out of 10 cars produced in the UK are exported overseas to 140 different markets worldwide."

born_again

subjecttocontract said:

born_again said:

subjecttocontract said:

born_again said:

Baldytyke88 said:

born_again said:

henry24 said:

How can flats and terraced houses have off street parking the one's I see step straight in from the path

Where do these people park their cars now?

If you can park a car, then a charge point can be installed.

Not rocket science is it?

Local car parks 7kw charge points for every space. No need for anything faster. Not everyone needs to charge every night.

But what happens if a visitor parks their car outside your terraced home or someone from up the street? I believe the average house has 3 cars. I have my own and a work vehicle, and my daughter has her car.

Always another problem..
Where would they park then? 

Many houses have no cars... 

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/number-cars-great-britain#:~:text=In 2022, households in England,English household had 1.30 cars.

In 2022, households in England had an average of 1.22 cars. However if we exclude London (the area with the lowest rate of vehicle ownership) then the typical English household had 1.30 cars.

What do people do when a petrol station closes? They go elsewhere. 
In 1963 39000 petrol stations & around 8.5 million cars. In 2022 Just over 8000 petrol stations & over 33 million cars.
https://apea.org.uk/petrol-stations-numbers-the-challenges-for-the-industry/
Just how do the extra 25 million cars, mange with a reduction of 31K less places to fill up?

So much negativity. 
You have to wonder how some people cope with life with their attitude 🤷‍♀️

Yes, perhaps we should all just accept any idea that's tabled, however crazy or unacceptable. It's just not British to disagree or hold a different opinion when a minority group is proposing what they think is right......is it ? 😇😇

No. It's fine to argue the points.

Just some of the arguments used border on desperation. 
Perhaps if people tried a EV & then made a reasoned argument then they would have more credibility.

If people can not charge at home then, yes EV may not be the best option for them. Not saying at the moment that they suit everyone. In time it will be the same as ICE to fill up. Plenty of chargers for everyone at reasonable price, close to where they live.

Some of the comment's such as where would I park if someone parked in my space... Come on...🤣
It's back to batteries will only last 2 year, then 4, then 6. Then the cost of a new one, when they can be repaired..

Clearly not everyone is as optimistic as you.
There is no indication whatsoever that private companies or the Gov' are making plans to massively increase the number of EV chargers. Your view that there will be plenty of chargers, at a reasonable price, close to where you live is just a wish. When the situation improves, when the infrastructure arrives, when industry sees a business case to invest in chargers, when the Gov' focus is on EV chargers instead of housing, NHS, immigration & defence.......then I might look at EVs more seriously. But, until then, without incentives it's going to be a very, very slow process of change and no way can 2030 stay as the deadline for sales of ICE vehicles.

This reminds me of the anti EV guy on U-Tube who actually drove a EV. Moaned about staying in a hotel in Wales. That there were no chargers near there.
Had he of looked out of his window or consulted one of the many apps. He would have found that there was a large number of charger next to the hotel. Of course that did not fit his agenda, but he got caught out big time on it.

As to not enough chargers with over 70,000 as of November this year. How many more do we need? Sure there are some area's that are a bit sparce. But you are never far from one.
Investments funds are falling over themselves to invest in charging infrastructure. Which is part of the issue with high prices. Investment has to have a return on it. Each charger is not cheap to install. Bit like a petrol station is not cheap to set up.

But with the below all yet to come online.🤷‍♀️

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1lLtXzshhTzZHl5yk4XHOeiVoU3erz6s&hl=en&ll=53.73805140040086,-1.4070650168266674&z=6&fbclid=IwAR1nonN6S0B7cEZPpaAX6OSnqpKi6TSJIGGzPl6L-Ul0GhafXnnTCf55NIc

People get hung up on range. My Niro has more range than daughters old Picanto had.

when the Gov' focus is on EV chargers instead of housing, NHS, immigration & defence

What kind of argument is that? Certainly not a vote winner.

born_again

letom said:

born_again said:

subjecttocontract said:

born_again said:

Baldytyke88 said:

born_again said:

henry24 said:

How can flats and terraced houses have off street parking the one's I see step straight in from the path

Where do these people park their cars now?

If you can park a car, then a charge point can be installed.

Not rocket science is it?

Local car parks 7kw charge points for every space. No need for anything faster. Not everyone needs to charge every night.

But what happens if a visitor parks their car outside your terraced home or someone from up the street? I believe the average house has 3 cars. I have my own and a work vehicle, and my daughter has her car.

Always another problem..
Where would they park then? 

Many houses have no cars... 

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/number-cars-great-britain#:~:text=In 2022, households in England,English household had 1.30 cars.

In 2022, households in England had an average of 1.22 cars. However if we exclude London (the area with the lowest rate of vehicle ownership) then the typical English household had 1.30 cars.

What do people do when a petrol station closes? They go elsewhere. 
In 1963 39000 petrol stations & around 8.5 million cars. In 2022 Just over 8000 petrol stations & over 33 million cars.
https://apea.org.uk/petrol-stations-numbers-the-challenges-for-the-industry/
Just how do the extra 25 million cars, mange with a reduction of 31K less places to fill up?

So much negativity. 
You have to wonder how some people cope with life with their attitude 🤷‍♀️

Yes, perhaps we should all just accept any idea that's tabled, however crazy or unacceptable. It's just not British to disagree or hold a different opinion when a minority group is proposing what they think is right......is it ? 😇😇

No. It's fine to argue the points.

Just some of the arguments used border on desperation. 
Perhaps if people tried a EV & then made a reasoned argument then they would have more credibility.

If people can not charge at home then, yes EV may not be the best option for them. Not saying at the moment that they suit everyone. In time it will be the same as ICE to fill up. Plenty of chargers for everyone at reasonable price, close to where they live.

Some of the comment's such as where would I park if someone parked in my space... Come on...🤣
It's back to batteries will only last 2 year, then 4, then 6. Then the cost of a new one, when they can be repaired..

In time EV charging will not reach the same time as refuelling. The economics make zero sense so there is unlikely to be be any significant investment in it. Why? To charge a EVs today in under 5 mins (which already have less range) requires chargers that are 10x more powerful. That's how electricity works, need 10x quicker need 10x  more power. Therefore you need one charger to be enough to pull from the grid in excess of 1 megawatt ie more power than say 700-1000 homes might draw, that is just one charger. The grid can't take that nor is it economically viable for any company to install the kind of infrastructure required, charge a competitive price and also get the volume of cars. It works for fuel stations because ultimately it's just a giant tank.

Ironically the people holding back EV infrastructure are people who charge at home, by charging at home you make installing public chargers less viable economically.

So no, refuelling will always be quicker and more economically viable.

So explain the increase in the number of chargers Double in the last couple of years?

No need for super fast charging. 

daveyjp

Our local large out of town supermarket development has just had a bank of about 8 chargers installed and it has left me wondering whether any permssion or brains are required.  

They are installed adjacent to a parking area parallel to the road serving the car park.  The new power supply and controller box is almost 2m high and wide so when exiting the car park the view to the right is completely obscured and any traffic on the access road can no longer be seen.  Its a brilliant piece of engineering which totally ignores car parks are used by moving vehicles.

Hoenir

born_again said:

As to not enough chargers with over 70,000 as of November this year. How many more do we need? Sure there are some area's that are a bit sparce. But you are never far from one.

Several hundred thousand publicly accessible chargers. The German Goverment has set a target of 1,000,000 by 2030.  A clear indication of the challenges that lie ahead. 

WellKnownSid

Hoenir said:

born_again said:

As to not enough chargers with over 70,000 as of November this year. How many more do we need? Sure there are some area's that are a bit sparce. But you are never far from one.

Several hundred thousand publicly accessible chargers. The German Goverment has set a target of 1,000,000 by 2030.  A clear indication of the challenges that lie ahead. 

62% of the German population live in flats vs 21% in the UK.  They have different challenges, but very real nonetheless.

Mildly_Miffed

Car_54 said:

Baldytyke88 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Emmia said:

The main issue with more chargers is the current grid can't cope, and changes in how electricity is generated, means the current grid is not really configured in the right way.

National Grid seem unbothered.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

Remember that total electricity consumption in the UK used to be a third higher than currently, and has dropped over the last couple of decades thanks to energy efficiency.

Peak of over 406TWh in 2005, down to 310TWh last year.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/323381/total-demand-for-electricity-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

But we don't make things anymore.

Really? That will come as news to the c.200,000 people making cars.

 "Over 905,117 cars, 120,357 commercial vehicles and 1.62 million engines were built in the UK in 2023.

Eight out of 10 cars produced in the UK are exported overseas to 140 different markets worldwide."

Or, indeed, all the people making lots of other things in the UK.

2.6m jobs, 8.1% of jobs
£217bn output annually, 8.8% of gross GDP
£38.8bn investment
https://www.makeuk.org/insights/publications/uk-manufacturing-the-facts-2024
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05206/

But I think we've already established that facts come second to preconceptions with some, especially the kind of person so selfish as to have "no interest in air quality, saving the planet, improving the environment"

Baldytyke88

Mildly_Miffed said:

2.6m jobs, 8.1% of jobs
£217bn output annually, 8.8% of gross GDP
£38.8bn investment
https://www.makeuk.org/insights/publications/uk-manufacturing-the-facts-2024
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05206/

But I think we've already established that facts come second to preconceptions with some, especially the kind of person so selfish as to have "no interest in air quality, saving the planet, improving the environment"

Manufacturing's share of the UK's economic output has been declining since the 1970s. In 1970, it was 27%, but by 2018 it was 10%.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/output/articles/changesintheeconomysincethe1970s/2019-09-02

Herzlos

Baldytyke88 said:

Goudy said:

That might not be too far fetched.
I can see fossil fuels becoming obsolete, either banned or there just being no profit in production and synthetic fuels being the (expensive) alternative.

Aeroplanes, JCBs, lawnmowers,diesel heaters etc. there will be loads of products still using petrol/diesel for many years to come.

The electric JCB is brilliant, actually. Because it's silent running you can use it without a banksman and don't need to worry about noise concerns. Because it doesn't produce emissions you can use it indoors without ventilation or swapping out drivers.

henry24

The electric jcb is a very small machine at 1.9 tonnes with a 5 hour working time so totally useless for any decent work