Have we ever been in a worse car buying era I don't know where to turn next.

subjecttocontract

born_again said:

subjecttocontract said:

born_again said:

Baldytyke88 said:

born_again said:

henry24 said:

How can flats and terraced houses have off street parking the one's I see step straight in from the path

Where do these people park their cars now?

If you can park a car, then a charge point can be installed.

Not rocket science is it?

Local car parks 7kw charge points for every space. No need for anything faster. Not everyone needs to charge every night.

But what happens if a visitor parks their car outside your terraced home or someone from up the street? I believe the average house has 3 cars. I have my own and a work vehicle, and my daughter has her car.

Always another problem..
Where would they park then? 

Many houses have no cars... 

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/number-cars-great-britain#:~:text=In 2022, households in England,English household had 1.30 cars.

In 2022, households in England had an average of 1.22 cars. However if we exclude London (the area with the lowest rate of vehicle ownership) then the typical English household had 1.30 cars.

What do people do when a petrol station closes? They go elsewhere. 
In 1963 39000 petrol stations & around 8.5 million cars. In 2022 Just over 8000 petrol stations & over 33 million cars.
https://apea.org.uk/petrol-stations-numbers-the-challenges-for-the-industry/
Just how do the extra 25 million cars, mange with a reduction of 31K less places to fill up?

So much negativity. 
You have to wonder how some people cope with life with their attitude 🤷‍♀️

Yes, perhaps we should all just accept any idea that's tabled, however crazy or unacceptable. It's just not British to disagree or hold a different opinion when a minority group is proposing what they think is right......is it ? 😇😇

No. It's fine to argue the points.

Just some of the arguments used border on desperation. 
Perhaps if people tried a EV & then made a reasoned argument then they would have more credibility.

If people can not charge at home then, yes EV may not be the best option for them. Not saying at the moment that they suit everyone. In time it will be the same as ICE to fill up. Plenty of chargers for everyone at reasonable price, close to where they live.

Some of the comment's such as where would I park if someone parked in my space... Come on...🤣
It's back to batteries will only last 2 year, then 4, then 6. Then the cost of a new one, when they can be repaired..

Clearly not everyone is as optimistic as you.
There is no indication whatsoever that private companies or the Gov' are making plans to massively increase the number of EV chargers. Your view that there will be plenty of chargers, at a reasonable price, close to where you live is just a wish. When the situation improves, when the infrastructure arrives, when industry sees a business case to invest in chargers, when the Gov' focus is on EV chargers instead of housing, NHS, immigration & defence.......then I might look at EVs more seriously. But, until then, without incentives it's going to be a very, very slow process of change and no way can 2030 stay as the deadline for sales of ICE vehicles.

Mildly_Miffed

subjecttocontract said:

There is no indication whatsoever that private companies or the Gov' are making plans to massively increase the number of EV chargers.

Except for one minor detail...

They are increasing rapidly.

c.30k public charging points at the start of 2022, nearly 40k at the start of 2023, 55k at the start of 2024. 66k half way through 2024.
16k increase, 45%, through 2023.
11k increase through 2024H1, 47% over 2023H1.

20% of all public chargers 50kW or faster.
40% of all public chargers "on street".

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/electric-vehicle-public-charging-infrastructure-statistics-july-2024/electric-vehicle-public-charging-infrastructure-statistics-july-2024#uk-growth-in-public-charging-devices

subjecttocontract

......and there still aren't enough. We need way, way more than that in order to combat range anxiety. I'm not aware of a single car park (other than supermarkets) in my area that has an EV charger.  Those numbers you quote are not reflected where I live and I've yet to stay at any hotel that has more than 2 chargers. It doesn't give me any confidence.

WellKnownSid

subjecttocontract said:
no way can 2030 stay as the deadline for sales of ICE vehicles.

Even if it were 2030 (and it's looking like 2035 for PHEVs) - it is only new registrations which means you are talking about just a 6% increase in the number of electric vehicles on the road.  If cars are scrapped around 16 years old, it will be at least 2051 before the last remaining ICE vehicles are getting scrapped.  The vast majority of the motoring public drive around in second hand cars and will unaffected by 2030.

Mildly_Miffed

subjecttocontract said:

......and there still aren't enough. We need way, way more than that in order to combat range anxiety. I'm not aware of a single car park (other than supermarkets) in my area that has an EV charger.  Those numbers you quote are not reflected where I live and I've yet to stay at any hotel that has more than 2 chargers. It doesn't give me any confidence.

Yes, there are more needed, especially as the number of cars that can use them are increasing.

But they're increasing faster than the number of plug-in cars on the roads, and that's the main thing.

Where do you live, that there's so few?

I live in the middle of nowhere in the Welsh borders.
A pub on the main road has four fast chargers.
The public car parks in both my nearby towns have a number of chargers.
The hotel in one of them has two chargers... for 19 rooms, and the hotel on the edge has three for 28 rooms.

If you think hotels should be installing chargers faster... tell the hotels. Same for pubs, etc. It's up to them to install them... Nobody else can do it.
Councils can do on-street and council carparks, nowhere else.

Emmia

subjecttocontract said:

born_again said:

subjecttocontract said:

born_again said:

Baldytyke88 said:

born_again said:

henry24 said:

How can flats and terraced houses have off street parking the one's I see step straight in from the path

Where do these people park their cars now?

If you can park a car, then a charge point can be installed.

Not rocket science is it?

Local car parks 7kw charge points for every space. No need for anything faster. Not everyone needs to charge every night.

But what happens if a visitor parks their car outside your terraced home or someone from up the street? I believe the average house has 3 cars. I have my own and a work vehicle, and my daughter has her car.

Always another problem..
Where would they park then? 

Many houses have no cars... 

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/number-cars-great-britain#:~:text=In 2022, households in England,English household had 1.30 cars.

In 2022, households in England had an average of 1.22 cars. However if we exclude London (the area with the lowest rate of vehicle ownership) then the typical English household had 1.30 cars.

What do people do when a petrol station closes? They go elsewhere. 
In 1963 39000 petrol stations & around 8.5 million cars. In 2022 Just over 8000 petrol stations & over 33 million cars.
https://apea.org.uk/petrol-stations-numbers-the-challenges-for-the-industry/
Just how do the extra 25 million cars, mange with a reduction of 31K less places to fill up?

So much negativity. 
You have to wonder how some people cope with life with their attitude 🤷‍♀️

Yes, perhaps we should all just accept any idea that's tabled, however crazy or unacceptable. It's just not British to disagree or hold a different opinion when a minority group is proposing what they think is right......is it ? 😇😇

No. It's fine to argue the points.

Just some of the arguments used border on desperation. 
Perhaps if people tried a EV & then made a reasoned argument then they would have more credibility.

If people can not charge at home then, yes EV may not be the best option for them. Not saying at the moment that they suit everyone. In time it will be the same as ICE to fill up. Plenty of chargers for everyone at reasonable price, close to where they live.

Some of the comment's such as where would I park if someone parked in my space... Come on...🤣
It's back to batteries will only last 2 year, then 4, then 6. Then the cost of a new one, when they can be repaired..

Clearly not everyone is as optimistic as you.
There is no indication whatsoever that private companies or the Gov' are making plans to massively increase the number of EV chargers. Your view that there will be plenty of chargers, at a reasonable price, close to where you live is just a wish. When the situation improves, when the infrastructure arrives, when industry sees a business case to invest in chargers, when the Gov' focus is on EV chargers instead of housing, NHS, immigration & defence.......then I might look at EVs more seriously. But, until then, without incentives it's going to be a very, very slow process of change and no way can 2030 stay as the deadline for sales of ICE vehicles.

The main issue with more chargers is the current grid can't cope, and changes in how electricity is generated, means the current grid is not really configured in the right way.

Putting in new 'wires' to update the grid and get the power where it's needed probably involves pylons (which are unpopular, but less expensive than burying the cables). However more fundamentally there's a shortage of engineers to do this work.

The trouble is, people won't want to choose between having the lights on and charging EVs (but that's potentially a choice that will be need to be made).

letom

born_again said:

subjecttocontract said:

born_again said:

Baldytyke88 said:

born_again said:

henry24 said:

How can flats and terraced houses have off street parking the one's I see step straight in from the path

Where do these people park their cars now?

If you can park a car, then a charge point can be installed.

Not rocket science is it?

Local car parks 7kw charge points for every space. No need for anything faster. Not everyone needs to charge every night.

But what happens if a visitor parks their car outside your terraced home or someone from up the street? I believe the average house has 3 cars. I have my own and a work vehicle, and my daughter has her car.

Always another problem..
Where would they park then? 

Many houses have no cars... 

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/number-cars-great-britain#:~:text=In 2022, households in England,English household had 1.30 cars.

In 2022, households in England had an average of 1.22 cars. However if we exclude London (the area with the lowest rate of vehicle ownership) then the typical English household had 1.30 cars.

What do people do when a petrol station closes? They go elsewhere. 
In 1963 39000 petrol stations & around 8.5 million cars. In 2022 Just over 8000 petrol stations & over 33 million cars.
https://apea.org.uk/petrol-stations-numbers-the-challenges-for-the-industry/
Just how do the extra 25 million cars, mange with a reduction of 31K less places to fill up?

So much negativity. 
You have to wonder how some people cope with life with their attitude 🤷‍♀️

Yes, perhaps we should all just accept any idea that's tabled, however crazy or unacceptable. It's just not British to disagree or hold a different opinion when a minority group is proposing what they think is right......is it ? 😇😇

No. It's fine to argue the points.

Just some of the arguments used border on desperation. 
Perhaps if people tried a EV & then made a reasoned argument then they would have more credibility.

If people can not charge at home then, yes EV may not be the best option for them. Not saying at the moment that they suit everyone. In time it will be the same as ICE to fill up. Plenty of chargers for everyone at reasonable price, close to where they live.

Some of the comment's such as where would I park if someone parked in my space... Come on...🤣
It's back to batteries will only last 2 year, then 4, then 6. Then the cost of a new one, when they can be repaired..

In time EV charging will not reach the same time as refuelling. The economics make zero sense so there is unlikely to be be any significant investment in it. Why? To charge a EVs today in under 5 mins (which already have less range) requires chargers that are 10x more powerful. That's how electricity works, need 10x quicker need 10x  more power. Therefore you need one charger to be enough to pull from the grid in excess of 1 megawatt ie more power than say 700-1000 homes might draw, that is just one charger. The grid can't take that nor is it economically viable for any company to install the kind of infrastructure required, charge a competitive price and also get the volume of cars. It works for fuel stations because ultimately it's just a giant tank.

Ironically the people holding back EV infrastructure are people who charge at home, by charging at home you make installing public chargers less viable economically.

So no, refuelling will always be quicker and more economically viable.

Baldytyke88

born_again said:

Always another problem..
Where would they park then? 
Many houses have no cars... 

So much negativity. 
You have to wonder how some people cope with life with their attitude 🤷‍♀️

I park in my drive, our other vehicles on the main road. Two people living just on the main road, they buy and sell cars, but there is space as some don't have vehicles.

Mildly_Miffed

Emmia said:

The main issue with more chargers is the current grid can't cope, and changes in how electricity is generated, means the current grid is not really configured in the right way.

National Grid seem unbothered.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

Remember that total electricity consumption in the UK used to be a third higher than currently, and has dropped over the last couple of decades thanks to energy efficiency.

Peak of over 406TWh in 2005, down to 310TWh last year.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/323381/total-demand-for-electricity-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

Baldytyke88

Mildly_Miffed said:

Emmia said:

The main issue with more chargers is the current grid can't cope, and changes in how electricity is generated, means the current grid is not really configured in the right way.

National Grid seem unbothered.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

Remember that total electricity consumption in the UK used to be a third higher than currently, and has dropped over the last couple of decades thanks to energy efficiency.

Peak of over 406TWh in 2005, down to 310TWh last year.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/323381/total-demand-for-electricity-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

But we don't make things anymore.

The UK has moved away from energy-intensive industries like steel and cement and toward service-based industries like finance and consulting.