Moving over from ESA Support group to UC advice.

TimeLord1

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

How long have you been on the ESA Support Group? If it's from around late 2017, everyone was assessed to establish if they had an entitlement to LCWRA, which was completed around late 2019, mostly done by paper-based decision. So many people don't even know this.

I remember you saying this in a previous thread sometime ago but I’m still not convinced with your logic. I was last reviewed for my ESA just as the first covid lockdown was announced and I received my form in the post like I always did. 

Yes looking back at the start of this in the news was October 2016 and completed over three years so just before lockdown was completed and reassessment suspended around 2020 but those with severe conditions which will never get better would never be assessed again. But as decisions people were given with Support Group outcomes a LCWRA decision but unless you requested the report it wasn't made clear to anyone. I requested an ESA85A back in 2018 to find out what Damian Green mentioned in 2016 about anyone with LCWRA with a severe condition would no longer being assessed and given an LCWRA 

TimeLord1

ev8 said:

TimeLord1 said:

ev8 said:

TimeLord1 said:

How long have you been on ESA Support Group if it's from around late 2017 everyone was assessed to establish if they had an entitlement to LCWRA that was completed around late 2019 mostly done by paper-based decision. So many people don't even know this.

Years, at least before 2014. I was reassessed a few years ago.

Don't forget assessments were suspended also so you should have been assessed for the LCWRA prior to 2019

So I was assessed for the UC related group before changing over? I'm confused.

Yes that's why when you eventually move you will not be required to submit certificates and once ESA sends over your information it will already have the meets the criteria for LCWRA as they're in the Support group but won't have told  this unless they requested reports.

poppy12345

TimeLord1 said:

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

How long have you been on the ESA Support Group? If it's from around late 2017, everyone was assessed to establish if they had an entitlement to LCWRA, which was completed around late 2019, mostly done by paper-based decision. So many people don't even know this.

I remember you saying this in a previous thread sometime ago but I’m still not convinced with your logic. I was last reviewed for my ESA just as the first covid lockdown was announced and I received my form in the post like I always did. 

Yes looking back at the start of this in the news was October 2016 and completed over three years so just before lockdown was completed and reassessment suspended around 2020 but those with severe conditions which will never get better would never be assessed again. But as decisions people were given with Support Group outcomes a LCWRA decision but unless you requested the report it wasn't made clear to anyone. I requested an ESA85A back in 2018 to find out what Damian Green mentioned in 2016 about anyone with LCWRA with a severe condition would no longer being assessed and given an LCWRA 

Yes but this doesn’t apply to everyone. It doesn’t apply to me, even though my conditions are life long with 3 diagnosed conditions. This applied from 28th September 2017. https://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2022-0860/137._Severe_Conditions_V3.0.pdf

TimeLord1

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

How long have you been on the ESA Support Group? If it's from around late 2017, everyone was assessed to establish if they had an entitlement to LCWRA, which was completed around late 2019, mostly done by paper-based decision. So many people don't even know this.

I remember you saying this in a previous thread sometime ago but I’m still not convinced with your logic. I was last reviewed for my ESA just as the first covid lockdown was announced and I received my form in the post like I always did. 

Yes looking back at the start of this in the news was October 2016 and completed over three years so just before lockdown was completed and reassessment suspended around 2020 but those with severe conditions which will never get better would never be assessed again. But as decisions people were given with Support Group outcomes a LCWRA decision but unless you requested the report it wasn't made clear to anyone. I requested an ESA85A back in 2018 to find out what Damian Green mentioned in 2016 about anyone with LCWRA with a severe condition would no longer being assessed and given an LCWRA 

Yes but this doesn’t apply to everyone. It doesn’t apply to me, even though my conditions are life long with 3 diagnosed conditions. This applied from 28th September 2017. https://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2022-0860/137._Severe_Conditions_V3.0.pdf

I'll read that in a bit.

When was your last assessment on ESA ? But regardless of how long that was requesting the last report should still be on the system if they do some searching they won't read it out but should still send that if required.  

TimeLord1

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

How long have you been on the ESA Support Group? If it's from around late 2017, everyone was assessed to establish if they had an entitlement to LCWRA, which was completed around late 2019, mostly done by paper-based decision. So many people don't even know this.

I remember you saying this in a previous thread sometime ago but I’m still not convinced with your logic. I was last reviewed for my ESA just as the first covid lockdown was announced and I received my form in the post like I always did. 

Yes, looking back at the start of this in the news, it was October 2016 and completed over three years so, just before the lockdown was completed and reassessment suspended around 2020, but those with severe conditions which will never get better would never be assessed again. But as decisions, people were given with Support Group outcomes a LCWRA decision, but unless you requested the report, it wasn't made clear to anyone. I requested an ESA85A back in 2018 to find out what Damian Green mentioned in 2016 about anyone with LCWRA with a severe condition would no longer being assessed and given an LCWRA 

Yes, but this doesn’t apply to everyone. It doesn’t apply to me, even though my conditions are lifelong with 3 diagnosed conditions. This applied from 28th September 2017. https://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2022-0860/137._Severe_Conditions_V3.0.pdf

Yes those are the the criteria we looked into and nobody knew of anyone receiving a notification that they would never be assessed again if they meet the 4 elements the (HCP) advises that a 

claimant has LCWRA, they will also advise if the claimant meets the Severe 

Conditions criteria.

We didn't see anyone confirmed that they would not be reassessed again by writing. But all HCP were giving ESA support group claims after WCA from that time the LCWRA diagnosis not the claimant meets the usual criteria for Support group status.

TimeLord1

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

How long have you been on the ESA Support Group? If it's from around late 2017, everyone was assessed to establish if they had an entitlement to LCWRA, which was completed around late 2019, mostly done by paper-based decision. So many people don't even know this.

I remember you saying this in a previous thread sometime ago but I’m still not convinced with your logic. I was last reviewed for my ESA just as the first covid lockdown was announced and I received my form in the post like I always did. 

Yes looking back at the start of this in the news was October 2016 and completed over three years so just before lockdown was completed and reassessment suspended around 2020 but those with severe conditions which will never get better would never be assessed again. But as decisions people were given with Support Group outcomes a LCWRA decision but unless you requested the report it wasn't made clear to anyone. I requested an ESA85A back in 2018 to find out what Damian Green mentioned in 2016 about anyone with LCWRA with a severe condition would no longer being assessed and given an LCWRA 

Yes but this doesn’t apply to everyone. It doesn’t apply to me, even though my conditions are life long with 3 diagnosed conditions. This applied from 28th September 2017. https://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2022-0860/137._Severe_Conditions_V3.0.pdf

@poppy12345 the examples were only that not a confirmation list of conditions that would only qualify.

poppy12345

TimeLord1 said:

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

How long have you been on the ESA Support Group? If it's from around late 2017, everyone was assessed to establish if they had an entitlement to LCWRA, which was completed around late 2019, mostly done by paper-based decision. So many people don't even know this.

I remember you saying this in a previous thread sometime ago but I’m still not convinced with your logic. I was last reviewed for my ESA just as the first covid lockdown was announced and I received my form in the post like I always did. 

Yes looking back at the start of this in the news was October 2016 and completed over three years so just before lockdown was completed and reassessment suspended around 2020 but those with severe conditions which will never get better would never be assessed again. But as decisions people were given with Support Group outcomes a LCWRA decision but unless you requested the report it wasn't made clear to anyone. I requested an ESA85A back in 2018 to find out what Damian Green mentioned in 2016 about anyone with LCWRA with a severe condition would no longer being assessed and given an LCWRA 

Yes but this doesn’t apply to everyone. It doesn’t apply to me, even though my conditions are life long with 3 diagnosed conditions. This applied from 28th September 2017. https://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2022-0860/137._Severe_Conditions_V3.0.pdf

I'll read that in a bit.

When was your last assessment on ESA ? But regardless of how long that was requesting the last report should still be on the system if they do some searching they won't read it out but should still send that if required.  

I received the last ESA50 form just as they announced the first lockdown in March 2020 and I had the decision on that review in around July 2020. I have the assessment report and it doesn't give such information on it. I am aware of the criteria involved and I know that it's not limited to conditions listed in the link I provided. 

I was aware of this when it was first introduced. 

Newcad

There appears to be some confusion here about the Limited Capability groups and their names.

To start with the ESA legislation does not refer to "Support Group" or "Work Related Activties Group", it never has done.

Those two group names are entirely the DWP's/ESA's own creation, ie. made up names to try and clarify (or is that disguise?) them.

The ESA legislation has always called them "Limited Capability for Work", and "Limited Capability for Work Related Activity" - LCW and LCWRA just as in UC.

The difference is that UC uses the names as stated in the legislation. rather than using made up 'friendly sounding' names like ESA does.

"No reassment" LCWRA awards:

The Severe Conditions = no-reassessment awards are simply that, a recognition that some of those awarded LCWRA will never be likely to return to work..
But it doesn't apply to all LCWRA awards, it is something that is recommened by the assessor, think of it more akin to the recommended time before next assessment.
For more info see: https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7820/CBP-7820.pdf
PS. It has always been possible for a WCA assessor to recommend that a return to work is 'unlikely in the longer term', the rule change just firmed up what that meant and stated that it should be used more often that it had been being used.

TimeLord1

Newcad said:

There appears to be some confusion here about the Limited Capability groups and their names.

To start with the ESA legislation does not refer to "Support Group" or "Work Related Activties Group", it never has done.

Those two group names are entirely the DWP's/ESA's own creation, ie. made up names to try and clarify (or is that disguise?) them.

The ESA legislation has always called them "Limited Capability for Work", and "Limited Capability for Work Related Activity" - LCW and LCWRA just as in UC.

The difference is that UC uses the names as stated in the legislation. rather than using made up 'friendly sounding' names like ESA does.

"No reassment" LCWRA awards:

The Severe Conditions = no-reassessment awards are simply that, a recognition that some of those awarded LCWRA will never be likely to return to work..
But it doesn't apply to all LCWRA awards, it is something that is recommened by the assessor, think of it more akin to the recommended time before next assessment.
For more info see: https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7820/CBP-7820.pdf
PS. It has always been possible for a WCA assessor to recommend that a return to work is 'unlikely in the longer term', the rule change just firmed up what that meant and stated that it should be used more often that it had been being used.

I was trying to find what term they used under Incapacity benefit outcomes and I'm sure that was similar legislation but having had a fire I lost a lot of documents from that time. But when have the DWP been straightforward. I remember that paperwork being more like a certificate in light green.

Unlikely in the longer term yep remember that one how long is a piece of string and let's just leave the window open. Never making anything to give people a peace of mind.

TimeLord1

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

How long have you been on the ESA Support Group? If it's from around late 2017, everyone was assessed to establish if they had an entitlement to LCWRA, which was completed around late 2019, mostly done by paper-based decision. So many people don't even know this.

I remember you saying this in a previous thread sometime ago but I’m still not convinced with your logic. I was last reviewed for my ESA just as the first covid lockdown was announced and I received my form in the post like I always did. 

Yes looking back at the start of this in the news was October 2016 and completed over three years so just before lockdown was completed and reassessment suspended around 2020 but those with severe conditions which will never get better would never be assessed again. But as decisions people were given with Support Group outcomes a LCWRA decision but unless you requested the report it wasn't made clear to anyone. I requested an ESA85A back in 2018 to find out what Damian Green mentioned in 2016 about anyone with LCWRA with a severe condition would no longer being assessed and given an LCWRA 

Yes but this doesn’t apply to everyone. It doesn’t apply to me, even though my conditions are life long with 3 diagnosed conditions. This applied from 28th September 2017. https://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2022-0860/137._Severe_Conditions_V3.0.pdf

I'll read that in a bit.

When was your last assessment on ESA ? But regardless of how long that was requesting the last report should still be on the system if they do some searching they won't read it out but should still send that if required.  

I received the last ESA50 form just as they announced the first lockdown in March 2020 and I had the decision on that review in around July 2020. I have the assessment report and it doesn't give such information on it. I am aware of the criteria involved and I know that it's not limited to conditions listed in the link I provided. 

I was aware of this when it was first introduced. 

It does seem that unless you reported a change nothing has happened since that time. I think after that was the underpayments with people who weren't assessed for income related entitlement.