PHEV or Hybrid to buy?

WellKnownSid

RogerPensionGuy said:

So he can sell them 2,200 EVs very very cheap to avoid all them £15,000 fines.

I don't think we track car 'sales' in this country - only registrations...

RogerPensionGuy

WellKnownSid said:

RogerPensionGuy said:

So he can sell them 2,200 EVs very very cheap to avoid all them £15,000 fines.

I don't think we track car 'sales' in this country - only registrations...

The document below says sales, so looks like it's okay to just sell new cars and think registration can be any time. 

My guess is the makers need the shelves cleared and they won't sell off heaps of cheap EVs to dealers unless dealers put reg plates on them ASAP. 

The above means makers can avoid ZEV fines and the dealers will then get these essentially pre-reg cars out their doors ASAP to clear their shevles of aging cars.

If dealers were to get these cheap EVs and sell slowly over many months, then the makers will just have problems over the next period as makers will not have customers due old pre-reg sorting any demands.

The ZEV % goes up in 2025, so more fun next year and the 40K luxury tax and VED applied in April, then Congestion Charging in London from December 2025.

***

https://www.evaengland.org.uk/our-work/zev-mandate/

Goudy

They have to balance the books which is why large manufacturers can share "tokens" between brands in the group .

Someone like VAG with many brands can trade off all the good work from selling lots of EV's with one brand and apply them to other brands in the group that don't sell many.

I recently posted on another thread about a joint venture with Leapmotors and Stellantis.
Leapmotor is a Chinese EV maker and Stellantis own lots of different brands.

The tokens earned from all the Leapmotor sales can go towards offsetting all the non EV models in the Stellantis portfolio.

More and more mainstream manufacturers are doing this one way or another, either through joint ventures or selling out to manufacturers that make or have the capacity to make lots of EV's, like Volvo and Geely.

A few years ago the same sort of thing applied, manufacturers had to have their fleets meet emission targets, they were heavily fined for just selling gas guzzlers.

Aston Martin obviously struggled as at the time they had nothing to offer, so they came up with a joint venture with Toyota and released this.
Aston Martin Cygnet | City Car | Aston Martin (UK)
Which is basically a Toyota IQ with leather seats and a Ford Fiesta grill.

At the moment there has been a drop off in EV sales and an influx of Chinese manufacturers undercutting them which not all manufacturers planned for.
They run out of tokens and other ways to bypass the fines so have to do something a little more drastic for a short time.
VAG have closed a couple of factories for a short time and I expect a sales push might be on the cards, though what that looks like in the dealerships I don't know, they could try shifting cars by offering cheap sales to large fleet operators or the importers (VW UK) gets pushed to register thousands of cars to sit on a dock somewhere until they flog them off to average Joe cheaply.
I suspect though it could be a bit of both.

These plans only usually last a short time, but the impact can be quite large later on.
Yes you might get a cheap car but there'll be lots on the market and that effects resale later on when they make their way on the used markets via auctions.
This damages all those PCP balloon figures and they end up losing out on those as well as no one will pay the balloon of £10k when the car is only worth £7k.

WellKnownSid

Manufacturers and importers have been playing games like this for a long time.  I remember as a schoolboy in the 70's having a friend whose Mum, Dad, Aunties, Uncles etc all got given "new cars" every couple of months.  The Dad worked for a local dealer called Hughes and everyone was given a free "demonstrator" so they could put as many miles as possible on them - a kind of crowd-sourced laundering operation to turn dodgy pre-reg cars with no mileage into proper used ex-demo!

RogerPensionGuy

Look at this example below as to how they pump out EVs.

Company has sold 4 ICE cars only by November.

They pay 4 X 15K fines being 60K or just sell/pre-reg 1 EV to avoid the fine, so indeed it's cheaper to just sell cheap EVs to avoid fines, crazy times.

As a previous poster mentioned Toyota IQ similar and was it Smart for Mercedes Benz ref C02 figures.

Maybe we will see a bulk the cheaper range of EVs getting sold/pre-reg this November and December to cook the books and all the fun with 2nd hand prices and EV confidence.

Maybe makers will process sales here, then just put on boats and offload them anywhere it makes sense for the maker. 

Goudy

It's all a result of policy.

Policy is trying to dictate the market and at the moment the market is either not that interested after a short run of earlier adaptors or there is something wrong with how the policy is received.

I'm not saying the policy is wrong (maybe it is, maybe it's the implementation?) but there are plenty of beneficial policy's about that lot's of people around the world don't warm to, not just emissions mandates, though that does seem to light most people's touch paper.

I suspect there are plenty that don't like being told and I include manufacturers and other industry players in that.

There are also some good examples in history of the results of policy dictating markets, but I'm not getting all  philosophical about those, but they did lead to some crazy times.

It appears at the moment if you're in the market for a certain type of car, you're either in a good place or bad place.
Yes EV's are getting discounted and used values have been under achieving, but we've also seen recently used ICE's sky rocket and new ICE prices climb.

If you take sentiment out of it, a car is a tool.
You just need to work out what sort of tool you need and how much you want to pay.
At the moment we have a wider selection of tools, but that won't always be the case.
As times move on and you need a new tool, your selection of tools will have changed and you make the decision all over again when your current tool is too blunt.

 

RogerPensionGuy

Reference last poster, new ICE discounts these last 3 months of this year will be possibly harder to find, maybe any makers that have achieved the 22% will be happy to pump out stock. 

On the flip side makers who are well below the 22% rule may feel pumping out any EV stock will be best option for them.

Anyone who actually wants delivery of a new ICE car November or December may possibly find delivery delayed by any reason dealers pick to deliver in January, it could be the reverse of Xmas 2023 when some dealers delayed delivery of EVs so they could plonk the sale date in to the 2024 data set, pretty smart ploy by the dealers or makers that did it last year, it's possible that makers who are ahead of the 22% rule now may indeed delay EV delivery the last 2 months of the year.

I will just continue to monitor and if any nice EVs get real massive massive discounts that I like, I'll buy one the last months or maybe a 2024 pre-reg in early 2025.

Niv

After reading this thread, it just makes me want to keep my diesel for as long as practicable. 

RogerPensionGuy

Niv said:

After reading this thread, it just makes me want to keep my diesel for as long as practicable. 

Yes indeed. 

Petrol or Diesel, if it's not a monster and kept in good condition and driven appropriately, keeping good servicable cars like this win on many fronts and probably by far the best real environment way to behave. 

But we like shinny new cars, mobile phones and the like, plus the finiance industry has made it look easy to achieve shinny items to make us feel better that the Jones next door. 

PCP is a great example for the above. 

Maybe I'll put a private plate on my car, swap wheels with a mate and change its colour by wrapping it and most neighbours will think its a new car. 

What fun! 

Bigwheels1111

My 2016  Peugeot 5008 diesel only has 25,500 miles on it.

On average I do 3k miles a year, it makes no sense for me to change.

I drove an MG4 Xpower yesterday, WOW what a beast for 25,500 brand new.

The 2 closest chargers are £0.79p and £0.85p.

Thats twice what diesel costs me per mile.