PHEV or Hybrid to buy?

WellKnownSid

RogerPensionGuy said:

I currently feel buying owning an EV just doesn't feel right as no home charging and I think 50 or 55% of UK people are like me, remote charging is time consuming, sometimes frustrating and at 75 pence per KWh is very costly, it needs to be 40 pence or less to be cheaper than petrol or diesel.

Add to the above, that nasty 2K luxury car car tax from next April, VED, pay per mile and the London congestion charge being applied to EVs next year makes me think the EV honeymoon is over for some people. 

In general AC charging is under 50p/kWh - just find a shopping centre with 22kW chargers.  Or a garden centre that charges by the hour.  Or a council building with free charge points.  We've used all of these until our EVSE got installed.  

Anyone who can genuinely afford a £40k car isn't going to be fussed about £2k of luxury car tax.  At maximum it's only 5%, nothing compared to the discount you'll get offered by most manufacturers.

RogerPensionGuy

The luxury tax is a bit funny. 

I can buy a 50K RRP new car for 35K now, sell it for say 28K at one year old and I won't pay any luxury tax. 

The owner who pays say 28K pays the 2K over years 2 to 6 of VED. 

I have been looking at cars with RRP of say 35K and spec them up with nice safety helpful extras often putting the RRP to over 40K RRP and I certainly don't like that extra 2K to pay in years 2 to 6 if VED, a very cunning tax indeed.

In my experience car sales persons do not always explain this tax to people, I know plenty people who have or are paying it without being aware before buying a car. 

It makes buying a sensible 6 years old car even more attractive or like me, just keep owning and driving an older technology car and watch society buy, lease and sell these nice new shinny cars and paying interest charges on loans keeping newish shinny cars outside house or flat.

PCP is just so designed to do the above, 3 years old, pay up 20K or get in to yet another new shinny car. 

All above said, if they sell off loads of cheap EVs trying to avoid that 15K fine per ICE car, I may buy an EV and just live with remote charging and costs per mile and that 2K luxury charge, was it a Vauxhall Corsa can now be over 40K RRP!!! 

Herzlos

RogerPensionGuy said:

The luxury tax is a bit funny. 

I can buy a 50K RRP new car for 35K now, sell it for say 28K at one year old and I won't pay any luxury tax.

The tax is based on list price not purchased price, so this doesn't make sense. Or do you mean if you sell it before the tax renews? Because you're still paying the first year tax and that's an incredibly expensive way to save a bit of money.

I think the idea of more expensive cars attracting more tax in a fair one, though I'm not sure I agree with the £40k threshold or it being so binary, because a lot of pretty mundane cars that used to be under £30k pre-covid are coming in over £40k now.

I'd maybe add 1% on top of the 20% for every £10k over £20k on new cars. That way a basic family car pays 20% and a £100k supercar pays 30%.

RogerPensionGuy

Herzlos said:

RogerPensionGuy said:

The luxury tax is a bit funny. 

I can buy a 50K RRP new car for 35K now, sell it for say 28K at one year old and I won't pay any luxury tax.

The tax is based on list price not purchased price, so this doesn't make sense. Or do you mean if you sell it before the tax renews? Because you're still paying the first year tax and that's an incredibly expensive way to save a bit of money.

I think the idea of more expensive cars attracting more tax in a fair one, though I'm not sure I agree with the £40k threshold or it being so binary, because a lot of pretty mundane cars that used to be under £30k pre-covid are coming in over £40k now.

I'd maybe add 1% on top of the 20% for every £10k over £20k on new cars. That way a basic family car pays 20% and a £100k supercar pays 30%.

My example is a point I'm making. 

Car RRP is 40K and 2 pence. 

I buy it new at say 25K and the cheap 1st years VED is included in that 25K.

I sell it at 20K at 11 months old. 

Next person buys for 20K and pays an extra 2K luxury tax over years 2 to 6, so a 10% extra lump for the second owner, what a tax con like so many others. 

And lets enjoy the introduction of a tax of PPM pay per mile. 

WellKnownSid

RogerPensionGuy said:

Herzlos said:

RogerPensionGuy said:

The luxury tax is a bit funny. 

I can buy a 50K RRP new car for 35K now, sell it for say 28K at one year old and I won't pay any luxury tax.

The tax is based on list price not purchased price, so this doesn't make sense. Or do you mean if you sell it before the tax renews? Because you're still paying the first year tax and that's an incredibly expensive way to save a bit of money.

I think the idea of more expensive cars attracting more tax in a fair one, though I'm not sure I agree with the £40k threshold or it being so binary, because a lot of pretty mundane cars that used to be under £30k pre-covid are coming in over £40k now.

I'd maybe add 1% on top of the 20% for every £10k over £20k on new cars. That way a basic family car pays 20% and a £100k supercar pays 30%.

My example is a point I'm making. 

Car RRP is 40K and 2 pence. 

I buy it new at say 25K and the cheap 1st years VED is included in that 25K.

I sell it at 20K at 11 months old. 

Next person buys for 20K and pays an extra 2K luxury tax over years 2 to 6, so a 10% extra lump for the second owner, what a tax con like so many others. 

And lets enjoy the introduction of a tax of PPM pay per mile. 

Well, people buying cars rarely do their homework.  How many check the insurance cost before changing?

If you're so worried about the tax, just buy a new EV by 31st March 2025, or a used one registered before 1st April next year and you won't pay the supplement either (well, at the moment at least).

born_again

RogerPensionGuy said:

Herzlos said:

RogerPensionGuy said:

The luxury tax is a bit funny. 

I can buy a 50K RRP new car for 35K now, sell it for say 28K at one year old and I won't pay any luxury tax.

The tax is based on list price not purchased price, so this doesn't make sense. Or do you mean if you sell it before the tax renews? Because you're still paying the first year tax and that's an incredibly expensive way to save a bit of money.

I think the idea of more expensive cars attracting more tax in a fair one, though I'm not sure I agree with the £40k threshold or it being so binary, because a lot of pretty mundane cars that used to be under £30k pre-covid are coming in over £40k now.

I'd maybe add 1% on top of the 20% for every £10k over £20k on new cars. That way a basic family car pays 20% and a £100k supercar pays 30%.

My example is a point I'm making. 

Car RRP is 40K and 2 pence. 

I buy it new at say 25K and the cheap 1st years VED is included in that 25K.

I sell it at 20K at 11 months old. 

Next person buys for 20K and pays an extra 2K luxury tax over years 2 to 6, so a 10% extra lump for the second owner, what a tax con like so many others. 

And lets enjoy the introduction of a tax of PPM pay per mile. 

Good luck with buying one that cheap & selling it at that price.

RogerPensionGuy

born_again said:

RogerPensionGuy said:

Herzlos said:

RogerPensionGuy said:

The luxury tax is a bit funny. 

I can buy a 50K RRP new car for 35K now, sell it for say 28K at one year old and I won't pay any luxury tax.

The tax is based on list price not purchased price, so this doesn't make sense. Or do you mean if you sell it before the tax renews? Because you're still paying the first year tax and that's an incredibly expensive way to save a bit of money.

I think the idea of more expensive cars attracting more tax in a fair one, though I'm not sure I agree with the £40k threshold or it being so binary, because a lot of pretty mundane cars that used to be under £30k pre-covid are coming in over £40k now.

I'd maybe add 1% on top of the 20% for every £10k over £20k on new cars. That way a basic family car pays 20% and a £100k supercar pays 30%.

My example is a point I'm making. 

Car RRP is 40K and 2 pence. 

I buy it new at say 25K and the cheap 1st years VED is included in that 25K.

I sell it at 20K at 11 months old. 

Next person buys for 20K and pays an extra 2K luxury tax over years 2 to 6, so a 10% extra lump for the second owner, what a tax con like so many others. 

And lets enjoy the introduction of a tax of PPM pay per mile. 

Good luck with buying one that cheap & selling it at that price.

I notice today Volvo and Polestar are reducing EV various car stock levels by 23% & 19% reduction in RRP, however they are Pre-Reg, so more evidence EV stock/supply is not correct currently. These on Autotrader.

Goudy

VW group recently announced it is pausing EV production at a couple of factories, that includes VW's, Audi's and Cupra's EV's while they "adapt to demand".

They have admitted they have "bottlenecks" so I expect they may soon start to try and clear those with some tempting pricing or pressurise importers and dealers to clear them.
So if you are in the market, go in with your size 9's on!

born_again

RogerPensionGuy said:

I notice today Volvo and Polestar are reducing EV various car stock levels by 23% & 19% reduction in RRP, however they are Pre-Reg, so more evidence EV stock/supply is not correct currently. These on Autotrader.

They are trying to get round the system. By the end of 2024, car manufacturers have strict deadlines to sell a certain number of electric cars to hit government-set targets.

So registering the car allows them to hit the targets, or get the fine down. Problem is if no one buys them, they are stuck. As they are going to have to do the same next year only on a greater scale. 
Could get very messy soon & end up with dealers selling cars at a bit loss, just to make room for the next round of cars...


https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-13837315/ZEV-mandate-targets-manufacturers-clear-falling-behind.html

If you can stand the voice "Dave takes it On" had a good u-tube video on this last night 24-09-24.

RogerPensionGuy

The way I see it.

Example is a maker has oversold ICE cars by say 7,800 units this year and possibly paying15K ZEV fine on each unit. 

So same maker pumps out 2,200 EVs before year end to avoid that 7,800 X 15K.

So he can sell them 2,200 EVs very very cheap to avoid all them £15,000 fines.

So altho an EV doesn't really work for me financially, hassle time and is environmentally bad in my case, I may still buy one if its cheap enough to purchase.

I'll keep monitoring and see if they temp me enough.