PHEV or Hybrid to buy?

RogerPensionGuy

Hi All. 

I'm looking to buy a brand new, pre~reg or very low milage car currently.

I don't have home charging facility, Polestar even offered me a £900 credit for public charging and when they checked my postcode and local public charging rates, they agreed £900 credit would not last long, think they mentioned 80 Pence P KW Hour.

So a normal EV is off my radar. 

I like the way PHEVs and Hybrids drive using the battery at low town speeds.

So I'm 99% probably going to buy a PHEV or Hybrid. 

I'm guessing I'll be like my friends with PHEVs and it will rarely or never charged up with electricity. 

I know PHEVs are heavier and my MPG and environmental footprint will be less than a Hybrid.

Finnaly my question and point of this post. 

If I buy a PHEV and use it as mentioned, will it operate more often on battery than a Hybrid and thus I'll enjoy more quiet battery only propulsion?

Some dealers are telling me the typical example PHEV 12 KW battery will just operate in the 1 to 4 KW (Hybrid) range and I won't feel any difference by getting a garage PHEV.

Some dealers are telling me the PHEV option will use the battery more making driving in town more nice and they say I can play with settings to ensure the 12 KW battery is charged up efficiently during driving that it will be like having a Hybrid with a 8 or 9 KW battery in it. 

The cars in question are all the same models, just a PHEV or Hybrids.

I don't mind buying the more expensive PHEVs if I get more electric only and engine off in town more often. 

Any views, comments and real world experiences most welcome please?

PS, there's a small chance I may get the home charging possibilities as I may move from a flat to a house and driveway. 

ididgetwhereiamtoday

What is your budget? If you could get a nice used Tesla Model 3 then you would have access to the super charger network which would give you cheaper charging rates than normal rapid chargers. Still not as cheap as the cheapest home charging tariffs but certainly something to look into. 

Depending on your mileage you may only need to charge a few times a month and would probably only take 30 minutes a time. 

I think EVs generally cheaper to run long time and nicer to drive. 

Car_54

I had a PHEV for almost a year, and never once plugged it in. Not enough public chargers around locally, and where they were available I never thought the hassle was worth it for the small amount of energy to be obtained. Incidentally, another downside of the PHEV was that the already smaller boot was made even less usable by having to accommodate the surprisingly bulky (and heavy) charging leads.

Two "normal" hybrids later, I'm very happy with the driving experience and economy.

To address your question "If I buy a PHEV and use it as mentioned, will it operate more often on battery than a Hybrid and thus I'll enjoy more quiet battery only propulsion?". Since you've defined "as mentioned" to mean "rarely or never charged", then the answer is NO, except rarely if ever. 

Possibly just never, given the extra weight of the leads and the plug-in hardware.

TadleyBaggie

Very happy with my e-Power Qashqai. Drive to the wheels is 100% electric, the petrol motor comes on and off to keep the battery charged. So you get electric performance and petrol range.

Petriix

A PHEV is entirely pointless if you're not going to charge it most days. In fact they're pretty much entirely pointless for most people unless they have a particularly weird driving pattern where they drive mostly short distances but do frequent journeys of over 300 miles which couldn't (for some reason) accommodate a 30 minute charging stop; basically no one fits this profile. 

A regular "unchargable" hybrid might make sense if you can find one that's genuinely more economical in the real world than a traditional ICE vehicle but they do seem to cost more to buy and maintain so make sure you look at the overall cost of ownership in comparison to an equivalent regular petrol or diesel. 

Now is a spectacularly good time to buy an EV. Some models are available at 1 year old for under half the retail price. Or a new MG5 can be bought for under £20k. The break-even point for charging cost vs petrol at 40 mpg is around 50p per kWh. Depending on the milage you do, you might find there are options not too far from your regular driving routine.

Ultimately my advice is to definitely follow through with your last paragraph and move to somewhere with the opportunity to charge at home then get an EV. Otherwise consider getting an EV now. But don't get a brand new one unless it's one of the spectacularly good deals that keep popping up. Polestar for example are a great price at ~ 2 years old because depreciation has been enormous so definitely not a good idea to get a new one. 

RogerPensionGuy

All posts above noted and thanks. 

I like the idea of an EV, but like,, is it 65% of the UK population don't have simple or cheap charging possibilities.

Nissan E Power cars drive great, but I just don't want one of these current models. 

Looks like I'll just pick car I want, if the PHEV model isn't too much more than the Hybrid, then I'll buy the PHEV I think. 

If I get a PHEV I will take the leads out of the car, I cannot understand why PHEVs or EVs carry leads due weigh, range or space etc, surely governments should just ensure all chargers have suitable leads. 

A slight favour for PHEVs is VED and pay per mile and parking charges where lower C02 emissions get cheaper parking, however maybe heavier cars will get charged more to park. 

Maybe EV offers will get even better the next few months as manufacturers try to avoid the ICE fines(22.5%~77.5%) and offer better deals to sell or register EVs and I'll just put up with expensive charging costs and hassles charging it. 

WellKnownSid

Around 30% of households with a car do not have access to private parking.  The majority are in terraced houses.  It is often cited that those in 'high rise flats' are massively disadvantaged however figures suggest just 8% car ownership in those cohorts.

Bigwheels1111

RogerPensionGuy said:

All posts above noted and thanks. 

I like the idea of an EV, but like,, is it 65% of the UK population don't have simple or cheap charging possibilities.

Nissan E Power cars drive great, but I just don't want one of these current models. 

Looks like I'll just pick car I want, if the PHEV model isn't too much more than the Hybrid, then I'll buy the PHEV I think. 

If I get a PHEV I will take the leads out of the car, I cannot understand why PHEVs or EVs carry leads due weigh, range or space etc, surely governments should just ensure all chargers have suitable leads. 

A slight favour for PHEVs is VED and pay per mile and parking charges where lower C02 emissions get cheaper parking, however maybe heavier cars will get charged more to park. 

Maybe EV offers will get even better the next few months as manufacturers try to avoid the ICE fines(22.5%~77.5%) and offer better deals to sell or register EVs and I'll just put up with expensive charging costs and hassles charging it. 

Not 100% sure on this but, make sure the PHEV reverts back to a hybrid once the battery depletes.
Other wise your dragging a dead body round in the boot all day. Not all do this.
My neighbours got a Mercedes PHEV for tax reasons from work.
Never changed it, what a joke.

born_again

If you can't charge at home. Then a PHEV is pointless.
HEV would be the way.

RogerPensionGuy

Bigwheels1111 said:

RogerPensionGuy said:

All posts above noted and thanks. 

I like the idea of an EV, but like,, is it 65% of the UK population don't have simple or cheap charging possibilities.

Nissan E Power cars drive great, but I just don't want one of these current models. 

Looks like I'll just pick car I want, if the PHEV model isn't too much more than the Hybrid, then I'll buy the PHEV I think. 

If I get a PHEV I will take the leads out of the car, I cannot understand why PHEVs or EVs carry leads due weigh, range or space etc, surely governments should just ensure all chargers have suitable leads. 

A slight favour for PHEVs is VED and pay per mile and parking charges where lower C02 emissions get cheaper parking, however maybe heavier cars will get charged more to park. 

Maybe EV offers will get even better the next few months as manufacturers try to avoid the ICE fines(22.5%~77.5%) and offer better deals to sell or register EVs and I'll just put up with expensive charging costs and hassles charging it. 

Not 100% sure on this but, make sure the PHEV reverts back to a hybrid once the battery depletes.
Other wise your dragging a dead body round in the boot all day. Not all do this.
My neighbours got a Mercedes PHEV for tax reasons from work.
Never changed it, what a joke.

I understand that PHEVs revert to standard hybrid when the battery gets to a low %

PHEVs are typically 12ish KW and Hybreds 4ish KW, and think both these batteries don't go below 1ish KW, but so think the PHEV will operate like a hybrid, but may be more flexible due battery capacity.

My research revealed many many PHEVs essentially never get plugged in, too much hassle and mostly as they were a great BIK trick, so people mostly drove these PHEVs as standard Hybred saving tax, but actually worse for the environment, the manufacturers were and are fully aware of PHEVs not getting charged due recored or live information, but it just suited and therefore it was and remained an environmental negative. 

Talking about the environment, having very very heavy 400 or 500 mile range EVs is also a negative, maybe the world should copy the quick battery change centres they have in China, think they have 6,000 centres and growing allowing sensible size batteries to be used in cars. 

Ectophile

RogerPensionGuy said:

Talking about the environment, having very very heavy 400 or 500 mile range EVs is also a negative, maybe the world should copy the quick battery change centres they have in China, think they have 6,000 centres and growing allowing sensible size batteries to be used in cars. 

The UK is much smaller than China.  But we currently have over 53000 public car chargers in the UK.  Battery swapping has been tried, and nobody can be bothered.

Plus, it would require a very limited number of standardised batteries to be used across all manufacturers.