Who is the Registered Keeper Between Selling Car and DVLA Updating Their Record?

Car_54

Nsar1 said:

Rover_Driver said:

If you enter the V5C number at the 'view tax rates' at the bottom of the Vehicleenquiry website, if the number is correct, it will work, and show the details.
 
If the number is correct, until the DVLA  update their register, the current regisered keeper (seller) can declare the vehicle SORN using that number, or the new keeper (buyer) can declare it SORN using the number on the green 'New Keeper' slip.

I'm not sure is much going to be achieved here by further discussion, so thanks.

I suspect most of us concluded that several pages ago.

TooManyPoints

"....if the new keeper committed an offence the Police would not regard me as being the registered keeper. "

It doesn't matter how the police regard you. As I said earlier, they are very often the very last people from whom you should accept legal advice. What matters is how the various laws within which they have to operate regard you.

Sticking to speeding offences, if the police detect an offence and the driver was not stopped at the time they have only one person with whom to begin their enquiries and that's the Registered Keeper. They have no information which connects the vehicle to anybody else. As an example, the Road Traffic Offenders' Act (which covers the service of a Notice of Intended Prosecution in such circumstances) makes it quite clear. The notice must be served on "... the person, if any, registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of the offence." 

In the circumstances you describe that will be you because you will be registered as the keeper of the vehicle until the DVLA records are amended to show otherwise. If they serve that notice on you, even though you no longer have anything to do with the vehicle, they will have fulfilled their obligations under the Act because you are the Registered Keeper. You will also have to respond to the accompanying "Request for Driver's Details" as I described earlier (though the request can be served on anybody - it's simply that the RK is the only person the police have details of).

Similarly, s144a of the Road Traffic Act creates a requirement for all vehicles to be continuously insured. The responsibility for that rests with the Registered Keeper:

144AOffence of keeping vehicle which does not meet insurance requirements

(1)If a motor vehicle registered under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 does not meet the insurance requirements, the person in whose name the vehicle is registered is guilty of an offence. [my emphasis].

The police cannot override those provisions by "not regarding you" as the RK.

The (very) short answer to your question is therefore that you are the Registered Keeper until the DVLA records are amended to show that you are not. That's why I suggested that the lengthy discussions which followed after you were first told that were somewhat fruitless.

.

Nsar1

Okell said:

Nsar1 said:

TooManyPoints said:

I'm not sure is much going to be achieved here by further discussion, so thanks.

I'm not sure that much was achieved anyway. You were told early on that you remain the RK until the DVLA alter their records (their records being the "Register of Keepers"). You simply didn't seem to like that answer. and kept re-posing the question.

Even those suggesting I'm the RK agree that the Police wouldn't pursue me.

They will pursue you in the first instance. You will continue to receive any correspondence to do with the vehicle (e.g. speeding allegations) until the DVLA's records are changed. The police have nobody else to contact because they don't know about the bloke you sold the car to. Whilst you are the Registered Keeper, even though you no longer have anything to do with the car, when asked by the police you have a duty to provide any information which it is in your power to give and may lead to identification of the driver. Failure to do so will land you with six points. So you would tell the police about the bloke you sold it to. You wouldn't have to prove it at that stage but you might if the bloke you sold it to denies that he bought it from you.

Very often you have to deal with the law as it is, not as you'd like it to be.

People expressed an opinion and then, as you have done here, contradicted themselves by pointing out that if the new keeper committed an offence the Police would not regard me as being the registered keeper. When I showed them how one police force (and presumably others) define registered keeper, they just dismissed it because it contradicted their opinion. People are entitled to their opinions, but it doesn't mean they are valid.

There is no contradiction   

What you've been told is that you remain the registered keeper until DVLA process the change when it will take retrospective effect.

If in the interim the new owner is caught speeding the police will contact you initially as you are the RK of record, but when you demonstrate to them that you've sold the car and that you are in the process of getting the RK changed to the new owner, they will leave you alone and go after the new owner.  

What part of that don't you understand or what part do you think is a contradiction?

molerat said:

Nsar1 said:

Okell said:

Nsar1 said:

The date on the check site is correct (for the date we purchased the car). Yes we have been getting tax reminders

So are you saying the V5C number is recognised on the vehicleenquiry website but not on the DVLA website?

Are you sure you input the correct number on the DVLA site?  No typos anywhere?

V5C number isn't listed on the vehicle enquiry site. If the DVLA site recognised the number I wouldn't be asking the question. 

Rover_Driver said:

If you enter the V5C number at the 'view tax rates' at the bottom of the Vehicleenquiry website, if the number is correct, it will work, and show the details.

Have you tried doing this ?

Have you????

The real question that ought to be of most significance to you is why the DVLA website didn't recognise your V5C in the first place...

Oddly enough I don't run the DVLA website, so I don't know why it didn't recognise the number. When I called them, they said words to the effect of "it happens, write to us" so I did. No need to get all huffy because someone doesn't agree with you.
Bye.

eskbanker

Car_54 said:

Nsar1 said:

People expressed an opinion and then, as you have done here, contradicted themselves by pointing out that if the new keeper committed an offence the Police would not regard me as being the registered keeper. When I showed them how one police force (and presumably others) define registered keeper, they just dismissed it because it contradicted their opinion. People are entitled to their opinions, but it doesn't mean they are valid.

The Registered Keeper is whoever is recorded as such by the DVLA. They act on behalf of the Secretary of State, using powers granted by parliament under the Vehicle and Excise and Registration Act 1994.

The police are responsible for enforcing the law, not writing or changing it. They can say they define the RK however they like, but they are wrong.

To be fair, the police were answering a specific question, namely "Is there a difference between the registered keeper and the owner of a vehicle?", to which it's not an unreasonable response, rather than being any sort of definition of how changes are processed:

A registration document (V5) is not proof of ownership. The registered keeper should be the person who is actually using / keeping the vehicle and this is not necessarily the owner of the vehicle or the person who is paying for it.

https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/ask-the-police/question/Q743

jimjames

Nsar1 said:

Rover_Driver said:

If you enter the V5C number at the 'view tax rates' at the bottom of the Vehicleenquiry website, if the number is correct, it will work, and show the details.
 
If the number is correct, until the DVLA  update their register, the current regisered keeper (seller) can declare the vehicle SORN using that number, or the new keeper (buyer) can declare it SORN using the number on the green 'New Keeper' slip.

I have no intention of declaring it SORN, I simply used that to illustrate the question. As you describe, this state of limbo allows someone with no connection with the car any more to have the ability to act as if they have.

You won't be able to declare it SORN anyway if the DVLA site doesn't recognise the V5C number. The number on the green slip is different to the front page so using the wrong one can cause it to not work.

born_again

Nsar1 said:

 who is the keeper of it can't. This state of limbo where one person is the keeper but not yet recorded as the registered keeper and another person is recorded as the keeper, but isn't the actual keeper is why I asked the question.  

Given it requires the below is required

• 11-digit number in your vehicle log book (V5C)

Which did not work to change keeper, what makes you think it will work for SORN?