Tomato Energy (Electric Only Supplier) - Too Good To Be True ?

lohr500

There was nowhere on the quote page to enter either an Agreed Usage or actual usage data nor is there any Agreed Usage figure stated in the Electricity Contract I received from them.

When the quote is generated online, it does drop in some estimated consumption data to calculate an estimated monthly cost, but at no point does it allow that estimate to be adjusted. I have no idea if suppliers can look at the historic use to generate an estimated usage. And at no point in the quotation process does it state that the estimated usage used for the quote will be considered as an Agreed Usage contractually.

So I'm not sure what evidence they would provide to prove the existance of an Agreed Usage.

BarelySentientAI

withaspritz said:

BarelySentientAI said:

withaspritz said:

Following this closely.  We have an EV currently on Eon Next but Tomato is much much cheaper.

I read about an Agreed Usage amount in the fine print for tomato, and that if you exceed that amount they can charge you more. Anyone know how this Agreed Usage amount is decided?

The estimated consumption on the quote.

From their terms:

5.5 In the event that You exceed the Agreed Usage at any Nominated Electricity Supply

Point, You shall pay to Us any costs (including but not limited to additional use of

system charges), losses or expenses incurred by Us for the provision of, and as a

result of, that excess.

So if you use more than the estimated usage, they reserve the right to charge excessive costs on top of the bill

Sounds bonkers. Is it a fixed or variable tariff?

If wholesale rate is say 15p overnight (like last night according to Octopus Agile prices) and I use more than my estimate charging at 5p, will they then apply a 10p expenses incurred charge to each unit over the estimated usage?  What if I get a new EV with a larger battery, or decide to put the dishwasher on overnight too

Can I request to set my estimated usage really high to avoid this?

Seems a bit dodgy to me?

My guess is that it's to enhance their hedging strategy and to avoid balancing charges from incorrect demand outturn.

Not dodgy, just a different type of tariff. 

Unpredictability costs money, so why should predictability not be rewarded with lower prices?

withaspritz

BarelySentientAI said:

withaspritz said:

BarelySentientAI said:

withaspritz said:

Following this closely.  We have an EV currently on Eon Next but Tomato is much much cheaper.

I read about an Agreed Usage amount in the fine print for tomato, and that if you exceed that amount they can charge you more. Anyone know how this Agreed Usage amount is decided?

The estimated consumption on the quote.

From their terms:

5.5 In the event that You exceed the Agreed Usage at any Nominated Electricity Supply

Point, You shall pay to Us any costs (including but not limited to additional use of

system charges), losses or expenses incurred by Us for the provision of, and as a

result of, that excess.

So if you use more than the estimated usage, they reserve the right to charge excessive costs on top of the bill

Sounds bonkers. Is it a fixed or variable tariff?

If wholesale rate is say 15p overnight (like last night according to Octopus Agile prices) and I use more than my estimate charging at 5p, will they then apply a 10p expenses incurred charge to each unit over the estimated usage?  What if I get a new EV with a larger battery, or decide to put the dishwasher on overnight too

Can I request to set my estimated usage really high to avoid this?

Seems a bit dodgy to me?

My guess is that it's to enhance their hedging strategy and to avoid balancing charges from incorrect demand outturn.

Not dodgy, just a different type of tariff. 

Unpredictability costs money, so why should predictability not be rewarded with lower prices?

I see. In which case this tariff isn’t for me as I don’t believe I can be that predictable.

Nothing wrong with it, but burying it in their terms rather than being upfront about it at point of sale seems to be dodgy. I stand by that.

BarelySentientAI

withaspritz said:

BarelySentientAI said:

withaspritz said:

BarelySentientAI said:

withaspritz said:

Following this closely.  We have an EV currently on Eon Next but Tomato is much much cheaper.

I read about an Agreed Usage amount in the fine print for tomato, and that if you exceed that amount they can charge you more. Anyone know how this Agreed Usage amount is decided?

The estimated consumption on the quote.

From their terms:

5.5 In the event that You exceed the Agreed Usage at any Nominated Electricity Supply

Point, You shall pay to Us any costs (including but not limited to additional use of

system charges), losses or expenses incurred by Us for the provision of, and as a

result of, that excess.

So if you use more than the estimated usage, they reserve the right to charge excessive costs on top of the bill

Sounds bonkers. Is it a fixed or variable tariff?

If wholesale rate is say 15p overnight (like last night according to Octopus Agile prices) and I use more than my estimate charging at 5p, will they then apply a 10p expenses incurred charge to each unit over the estimated usage?  What if I get a new EV with a larger battery, or decide to put the dishwasher on overnight too

Can I request to set my estimated usage really high to avoid this?

Seems a bit dodgy to me?

My guess is that it's to enhance their hedging strategy and to avoid balancing charges from incorrect demand outturn.

Not dodgy, just a different type of tariff. 

Unpredictability costs money, so why should predictability not be rewarded with lower prices?

I see. In which case this tariff isn’t for me as I don’t believe I can be that predictable.

Nothing wrong with it, but burying it in their terms rather than being upfront about it at point of sale seems to be dodgy. I stand by that.

I would agree with that - if they intend to use that clause and 'clever' tariff structure, then it should be far clearer and better explained than being buried in the small print.

It's not clear from their wording how predictable you need to be and over what timescale.  There doesn't seem to be any description of how much outside the estimate is allowable, whether it's measured instantaneously, daily, monthly, annually etc, and how specifically it should be calculated or modified.

It reads much more like a general indemnity clause which are unusual in retail contracts.

I'm all for inventive tariff structures, which I maintain are not dodgy, but this appears on the face of it to be a poor implementation and I'm not sure how enforceable the clauses would be.

withaspritz

BarelySentientAI said:

withaspritz said:

BarelySentientAI said:

withaspritz said:

BarelySentientAI said:

withaspritz said:

Following this closely.  We have an EV currently on Eon Next but Tomato is much much cheaper.

I read about an Agreed Usage amount in the fine print for tomato, and that if you exceed that amount they can charge you more. Anyone know how this Agreed Usage amount is decided?

The estimated consumption on the quote.

From their terms:

5.5 In the event that You exceed the Agreed Usage at any Nominated Electricity Supply

Point, You shall pay to Us any costs (including but not limited to additional use of

system charges), losses or expenses incurred by Us for the provision of, and as a

result of, that excess.

So if you use more than the estimated usage, they reserve the right to charge excessive costs on top of the bill

Sounds bonkers. Is it a fixed or variable tariff?

If wholesale rate is say 15p overnight (like last night according to Octopus Agile prices) and I use more than my estimate charging at 5p, will they then apply a 10p expenses incurred charge to each unit over the estimated usage?  What if I get a new EV with a larger battery, or decide to put the dishwasher on overnight too

Can I request to set my estimated usage really high to avoid this?

Seems a bit dodgy to me?

My guess is that it's to enhance their hedging strategy and to avoid balancing charges from incorrect demand outturn.

Not dodgy, just a different type of tariff. 

Unpredictability costs money, so why should predictability not be rewarded with lower prices?

I see. In which case this tariff isn’t for me as I don’t believe I can be that predictable.

Nothing wrong with it, but burying it in their terms rather than being upfront about it at point of sale seems to be dodgy. I stand by that.

I would agree with that - if they intend to use that clause and 'clever' tariff structure, then it should be far clearer and better explained than being buried in the small print.

It's not clear from their wording how predictable you need to be and over what timescale.  There doesn't seem to be any description of how much outside the estimate is allowable, whether it's measured instantaneously, daily, monthly, annually etc, and how specifically it should be calculated or modified.

It reads much more like a general indemnity clause which are unusual in retail contracts.

I'm all for inventive tariff structures, which I maintain are not dodgy, but this appears on the face of it to be a poor implementation and I'm not sure how enforceable the clauses would be.

Indeed.  I think I will continue to wait on the sidelines and see if any of those who have jumped ship fall foul of this clause.

HillStreetBlues

I think I switched as when I log into Octopus (old supplier) I no longer see the change tariff option, but not had a confirmed switch from Tomato.
I did get an e-mail  from T (I don't have a smart meter) saying "send us your meter reading" but nowhere on that e-mail on how to do it ( I did work it out).
So far my impression is  it's like someone working from their garage, some sort of hobby.
As I like to keep an eye on my bills and bank I'm not worried if they do make a mistake as I will notice it PDQ. Would I recommend it so far to someone that wasn't so vigilant, the answer would be no. 

bristolleedsfan

lohr500 said:

 have no idea if suppliers can look at the historic use to generate an estimated usage. 

Yes than can + comparison sites as well

Mike360

I did a quote on the site and as I don't have a smart meter and don't want one, the suggestion was Tomato Prime fixed for 12 months, for those with or without smart meters. The quotes were cheaper to what I am paying. The bottom of the quote page also says the quote is inclusive of VAT.

However, in their T&Cs it says...

8.4 If You do not have a Smart Meter at Your Premises, We may install one for You. We
will arrange an appointment with You for installation. If You repeatedly refuse to
allow Us to install a Smart Meter, We may terminate Your Supply Contract
immediately.

and

9.2 Electricity costs are exclusive of taxes, duties, and levies (excluding VAT) and You
shall in addition, pay an amount equal to those taxes, duties and levies chargeable
on those energy costs on delivery of a Bill.

All a bit confusing. I am also one of them people who do variable direct debit monthly whereby I provide a meter reading each month so I pay for what I use rather than the supplier choosing set amounts and adjusting as and when. It's not clear if they allow customers like me who have this preference.

I might email them.

wrf12345

It is illegal to stop supplying electricity, I believe, even with debt they switch you to a prepayment meter (which will be Smart) and load the debt on to the meter... old meters have dates after which they lose their certification and then will be replaced with SMart meters, don't think there is much you can do about it. SMart meters get you access to some interesting tariffs. Accuracy of all meters is plus or minus three percent so they can work out slightly cheaper or more expensive depending on how far out they are within that range (my new Smart meter was showing lower usage than the old one but only by a couple of percent, but every little helps).

BarelySentientAI

wrf12345 said:

It is illegal to stop supplying electricity, I believe, even with debt they switch you to a prepayment meter (which will be Smart) and load the debt on to the meter... old meters have dates after which they lose their certification and then will be replaced with SMart meters, don't think there is much you can do about it. SMart meters get you access to some interesting tariffs. Accuracy of all meters is plus or minus three percent so they can work out slightly cheaper or more expensive depending on how far out they are within that range (my new Smart meter was showing lower usage than the old one but only by a couple of percent, but every little helps).

It is perfectly legal to stop supplying electricity under certain conditions.

One of those conditions is when the customer refuses to allow the supplier to fit the meter they choose.

It's a specific provision in the Electricity Act 1989.

Refuse a smart meter, they are legally allowed to disconnect you.

I don't think it's ever happened, but that's a different question.