Unauthorised ATM withdrawal- Ombudsman ruled in favour of bank

sausage_time

We need more info from OP before we speculate further I think.

born_again

Given mention of TFL, this must be London. If OP had not reported to the police at the time. Who will simply say you report to Action Fraud, & that is the end of the matter. 
Way out of time for any CCTV
As other posters questions, until answered then no help can be given. 
Never known a delayed ATM transaction, so timestamp will be right on banks security system, not sure why they think that it was not declined, when transaction they were making was?
As no reason for a chip read ATM to be declined unless card was reported stolen.

dusthug

Hi OP, would you able to share what bank it was?

DullGreyGuy

Phortoes said:

Thanks Hoenir, if they don't investigate they won't unearth the fraud and it will happen to someone else. Everyone seems to believe corporations over the individual when they could easily check CCTV etc which only the corporations have access to.

You have more chance getting the video as an individual than a corporation has (obv excluding the police etc), for one you have a statutory right in the form of a DSAR to get information an organisation holds on you whereas a bank etc has no such right. 

In all cases it depends very much on who receives the request etc. When our car was hit in the trains station carpark the operators we gave me the CCTV without issue but unfortunately its a panning camera, the point of contact was obscured and whilst another vehicle was seen parked next to mine it had no corresponding damage when I saw it a few days after getting the video. 

As an insurance claims handler we were forever trying to get CCTV from places, petrol stations were normally helpful but many places weren't but again our first advice was always for the insured to ask as people respond better to a person in a bad situation than a corporation wanting to try and get its money back. 


Presumably this is the first tier ombudsman decision, often called an investigator? Assuming it is you can always ask to have the case escalated to an ombudsman, you dont need "new evidence" though it may help your case if you do have any. 


When trying to make a payment the sellers end of the system does various checks first before reaching out to the card issuer's bank for authorisation. Its therefore possible for a payment to be declined and your bank have no record of the payment attempt

born_again

Banks have no more rights than the OP here to CCTV. Police is best action. But odds of CCTV still being there are next to none (norm 30 days), given mention of ombudsman, which will have been a couple of months at least.
Bank does not need CCTV for their side. They can see type of card used (chip read), as UK ATM do not take mag stripe read cards, when a chip is expected). If person claiming fraud has their card, then it's a no brainer it will be rejected as fraud.

Phortoes

Thanks for all your comments.

To everyone that thinks my sister is fabricating it, you're not been helpful so please stop commenting. If she was, she won't involve the police or be taking it further.

We do not steal in our family. The amount taken won"t make or fill a tiny hole in her life. It's just wrong that the bank/ombudsman aren't even interested in checking properly. 

To the person that said it's not the same as the Postmasters' ... well Horizon was supposedly robust and infallible. 

God keep us until the day the banks let us know that infact it can be cloned.

I digress.

Phortoes

To clarify because of said confusion ...

- she went to top up her Oyster at the machine. She was using her bank card to pay for the top up

- to the person who said people don't use oysters, only contactless cards,  lots of people still use oysters.

- the transaction was declined and she got notification of having made an ATM withdrawal which she hadn't. She was still at the train station. She had her card in her possession. And still has it.

-The withdrawal was for her max daily. She definitely was not trying to top up the same amount. And she wasn't at the ATM neither had she ever withdrawn money from there before.

- Oh and when she went in the bank branch close to the station the next day after reporting it to their fraud team on the phone, they said she shouldn't have used the machines at the station. Suggests they may have had issues but the bank and ombudsman said branch staff say stuff and that they don't necessarily know the process.  One would think the bank would want to investigate.

- thanks to the person that said perhaps the bank had issued another card. I will ask her to ask the bank. But the question of how they got her PIN or knew when she was using it remains.

-thanks to the person(s) that said it may have been declined at the merchants before the bank. Wonder if TfL will have a record of that.

- thanks to the person(s) that said one can apply for cctv as an individual. We assumed only the police (and the banks for ATMs).  Hope they still have the recordings and will give them!

- thanks for the YouTube video. Not seen it yet but will see.

I won't mention the bank name. But it's one of the big high street ones.

Thanks to everyone that's been helpful/understanding. 

Phortoes

born_again said:

Banks have no more rights than the OP here to CCTV. Police is best action. But odds of CCTV still being there are next to none (norm 30 days), given mention of ombudsman, which will have been a couple of months at least.
Bank does not need CCTV for their side. They can see type of card used (chip read), as UK ATM do not take mag stripe read cards, when a chip is expected). If person claiming fraud has their card, then it's a no brainer it will be rejected as fraud.

According to the ombudsman, UK ATMs can read both magnetic stripe and chip. So they accept magnetic stripe cards too. 

Phortoes

Hoenir said:

Phortoes said:

eskbanker said:

Phortoes said:

My sister was using her card to make payment at a train station ticket machine but it was declined and simultaneously she got a text saying she'd made a withdrawal from an ATM.

Has the bank revealed the timestamp of the ATM withdrawal, i.e. even though she received the text while using the ticket machine, does the bank's evidence show that the withdrawal was timed earlier in such a way as to make it viable to travel the 500m between them?

However, the bank says they have no evidence of a declined transaction but as she touched the Oyster card on the machine, 

I'm now confused. As that's a very different take on the OP.  

 "She went to the Ombudsman who agreed with the bank because apparently the ATM read the chip on the card not the magnetic stripe. "

Suggest you speak to your sister again. As the story appears to be unraveling fast. 

You have to touch your oyster on the machine 1st so it reads it and knows which card to credit the payment to, you then insert your payment card to pay. A bit like paying for parking at the airport/shopping centre etc.

I meant, if TfL machine will have a record of her having touched it like that. Hope that makes sense.

friolento

Why does your sister still have the card? My first action would have been to request a new card

Phortoes said:

 

- the transaction was declined and she got notification of having made an ATM withdrawal which she hadn't. She was still at the train station. She had her card in her possession. And still has it.