Unauthorised ATM withdrawal- Ombudsman ruled in favour of bank

lr1277

I wonder if timing could be the issue. From what you have said, I can’t work out if the timestamp is for the train transaction or the cash withdrawal. 
When I use my debit card, the bank sends a notification in minutes or sometimes the notification is hours later.
Had your sister used that cash machine in the previous say 24 hours?
Can she get timestamps for both the ticket purchase and the cash withdrawal?
Perhaps something to explore?

Edited to add: I suppose the other question might be is her bank balance correct for all the transactions she has made? Or is her bank balance light by the amount of that particular cash withdrawal?
2nd edit to correct spelling.

Zanderman

Phortoes said:

eskbanker said:

Phortoes said:

My sister was using her card to make payment at a train station ticket machine but it was declined and simultaneously she got a text saying she'd made a withdrawal from an ATM.

Has the bank revealed the timestamp of the ATM withdrawal, i.e. even though she received the text while using the ticket machine, does the bank's evidence show that the withdrawal was timed earlier in such a way as to make it viable to travel the 500m between them?

Thanks, I didn't see your response before.

They have given the timestamp in the Ombudsman's response. However, the bank says they have no evidence of a declined transaction but as she touched the Oyster card on the machine, I wonder if it will have been recorded on transport for London's system.

I'll ask her to check with TFL as that will show when she was at the station as it seems no one with the right authority will be requesting CCTV.

So was she using her debit card to make payment or was she using her oyster card? Or was she topping up her oyster card with the debit card before then using the oystercard? What card was actually in use? Some clarification would be helpful. As would the amount(s) involved.

As others have said, the concept of her debit card being used at the same time and same location (albeit 500m away) as she was in the station seems a rather big coincidence. How much was she paying (or topping up) and how big was the atm withdrawal?  Isn't it possible it's the same thing? 

sausage_time

I'm also very confused. 

• Is the disputed ATM transaction on a debit card or a credit card?
• What is the value of the disputed transaction?
• Was she using the bank card or Oyster card at the ticket machine?  Perhaps both if she was topping up?
• What exactly was declined at the ticket machine?  Again, was this an Oyster top up?
• What are both timestamps?

With more understanding of events perhaps we can help explain what may have happened.

Colin.

mab3000

Feel that the OP is referring to her sister using her bank card for a contactless TFL payment by tapping in the same way that you do with an Oyster card thinking it’s the same thing. 

It’s possible the bank may not have a record of the declined transaction because the authorisation for the payment may not have reached them at all. Could have been a technical glitch or network issue on TFL side which may have caused the card to be refused. If there was a network error for example if the card was declined because they couldn’t connect to authorise the payment, then the bank likely won’t see this. 

surreysaver

TfL keep a list of blacklisted cards which have been declined for payment in the past. These will be rejected by TfL without being referred to the bank if tapped on an Oyster reader.
In this case, your sister won't have tapped on a ticket machine, she would have tapped directly on a gate.
It sounds like the story from your sister is fabricated.

M25

How much was the transaction for at the ATM? Very strange it's 500 metres from where she said she was.

So far, I tend to go with the ombudsman and bank. 

That 2nd Youtube video has nothing to do with this case that's simple NFC. There was chip AND PIN in this case.

If I did a lot of train/bus travel I'd probably transfer roughly exact amounts into the card from an account that has no card. Fairly simple and no different than going to an ATM and getting cash except it only takes a few seconds.

wmb194

Is there a reference to the Ombudsman's decision? It would be interesting to read it as they usually try to summarise the facts.

Rob5342

Was she using her Oyster card or her debit card? Could it be anything to do with her Oyster card getting automatically topped up?

Which bank is it? 

Speculator

Rob5342 said:

Was she using her Oyster card or her debit card? Could it be anything to do with her Oyster card getting automatically topped up?

Which bank is it? 

Lots of people use their Debit cards to use in place of Oyster cards for contactless TFL payments.

flaneurs_lobster

Speculator said:

Rob5342 said:

Was she using her Oyster card or her debit card? Could it be anything to do with her Oyster card getting automatically topped up?

Which bank is it? 

Lots of people use their Debit cards to use in place of Oyster cards for contactless TFL payments.

Lots of people use their Oyster card in place of debit cards because you can add your railcard discount to it.