Unauthorised ATM withdrawal- Ombudsman ruled in favour of bank

Phortoes

Hi all
Looking for some help on next steps please.

My sister was using her card to make payment at a train station ticket machine but it was declined and simultaneously she got a text saying she'd made a withdrawal from an ATM. She reported the fraud to the police and the bank. The bank claimed she must have authorised it from the evidence they have. She went to the Ombudsman who agreed with the bank because apparently the ATM read the chip on the card not the magnetic stripe. They say the chip cannot be cloned so the transaction must have been done with her own card. And the ATM used was located 500m from the station. Also, strangely the bank did not have a declined transaction.

She knows it wasn't her card because she had it with her at the train station and still has it. The ombudsman has said she can appeal within 14 days if new evidence.

The only new evidence we can think of will be -
 - to look at CCTV (which they won't give an individual) at both locations or if this has happened to someone else before. 
 - if anyone else has had similar issue or card chip being cloned before, assuming the ATM always records transactions correctly.

Has anyone got any advice please e.g. go back to the police so it can be properly investigated as they should be able to obtain CCTV which will be longer than 14 days if they do investigate.

Thanks.

eskbanker

Phortoes said:

My sister was using her card to make payment at a train station ticket machine but it was declined and simultaneously she got a text saying she'd made a withdrawal from an ATM.

Has the bank revealed the timestamp of the ATM withdrawal, i.e. even though she received the text while using the ticket machine, does the bank's evidence show that the withdrawal was timed earlier in such a way as to make it viable to travel the 500m between them?

Hoenir

Given that there's no actual evidence of a crime having been committed. The Police may well be unlikely to devote resources to the matter. 

Olinda99

in a sense they are right - if the ATM read the chip then it must have been her card as chips cannot be cloned to make for example a duplicate chip. 

it must therefore have been your sister's card so perhaps you should concentrate on how that card could have been used in the ATM machine 500m away

Phortoes

Thanks both.

Olinda99, it was not her card because she had it and it was in the train station's ticket machine at the time. My sister is not fraudulent, she has no reason to scam the bank. She's not desperate for money.

It's the same way the Post Office told Postmasters they're the only ones affected. It will be helpful to know if anyone else has had the same experience because scammers will figure it out one day and it will start with someone.

Phortoes

Thanks Hoenir, if they don't investigate they won't unearth the fraud and it will happen to someone else. Everyone seems to believe corporations over the individual when they could easily check CCTV etc which only the corporations have access to.

Hoenir

Phortoes said:

It's the same way the Post Office told Postmasters they're the only ones affected. It will be helpful to know if anyone else has had the same experience because scammers will figure it out one day and it will start with someone.

Totally different matter and unrelated to the events that occurred with your sister. 

Even if the card had been managed to be cloned and the PIN obtained. What are the % chances of the card beng used that close to the vicinity of your sister at the precise moment she was was about to purchase a railway ticket with her card. 

Phortoes

eskbanker said:

Phortoes said:

My sister was using her card to make payment at a train station ticket machine but it was declined and simultaneously she got a text saying she'd made a withdrawal from an ATM.

Has the bank revealed the timestamp of the ATM withdrawal, i.e. even though she received the text while using the ticket machine, does the bank's evidence show that the withdrawal was timed earlier in such a way as to make it viable to travel the 500m between them?

Thanks, I didn't see your response before.

They have given the timestamp in the Ombudsman's response. However, the bank says they have no evidence of a declined transaction but as she touched the Oyster card on the machine, I wonder if it will have been recorded on transport for London's system.

I'll ask her to check with TFL as that will show when she was at the station as it seems no one with the right authority will be requesting CCTV.

penners324

The Oyster card and bank debit card are totally separate. So does she still have the debit card?

Perhaps there's a new card issued by the bank that has been stolen in the post?

Has she checked which card is linked to her account?

Hoenir

Phortoes said:

eskbanker said:

Phortoes said:

My sister was using her card to make payment at a train station ticket machine but it was declined and simultaneously she got a text saying she'd made a withdrawal from an ATM.

Has the bank revealed the timestamp of the ATM withdrawal, i.e. even though she received the text while using the ticket machine, does the bank's evidence show that the withdrawal was timed earlier in such a way as to make it viable to travel the 500m between them?

However, the bank says they have no evidence of a declined transaction but as she touched the Oyster card on the machine, 

I'm now confused. As that's a very different take on the OP.  

 "She went to the Ombudsman who agreed with the bank because apparently the ATM read the chip on the card not the magnetic stripe. "

Suggest you speak to your sister again. As the story appears to be unraveling fast. 

Eyeful

Phortoes: I suggest the following may be of interest to you & your sister.
1. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Cloning+Chip+&+Pin+card&t=brave&ia=web

2. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6lD-FKThzI

3. For your cards buy or make a "Faraday cage wallet. Also known as a "RFID blocking wallet"

4. Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DXGnQFzGxU