Trading 212 Cash ISA - Impossible to transfer ISA out!

meopham47

A WORD OF WARNING! T212 makes it easy to accept a transfer in. But Transfers out are almost impossible. Every ISA provider demands an account number, sort code and (optionally) a reference number to accept an ISA transfer in. T212 doesn't give you a sort code or proper account number. Their 'account number' is just reference number. Most banks/building societies don't even have T212 on a accepting list for transfers in. T212 itself tells you to ask your new provider to write an e-mail or letter to them in order to obtain those details. None of the new providers would ever bother. They will just reject T212. Of course, you can always withdraw your cash, but then you lose the tax-free status.

slinger2

Many providers don't "give you a sort code or proper account number". Building societies often use "roll numbers" instead. This shouldn't affect your ability to transfer an ISA.

meopham47

Only passbook accounts have a roll number. Online accounts always have sort code and account number, with sometimes a reference number too. I know it's early days with T212, and probably nobody has tried to transfer out yet, but I foresee trouble unless T212 changes their system and reveals full account details. As far as I know, they use 3 well-known UK banks to deposit cash ISA money, so the real sort code and account number could relate to any one or more of these.

Catplan

I transferred from nationwide to virgin without providing sort code or account number just roll number.

refluxer

When ISA account numbers are reference numbers and/or don't conform to the usual 8-digit account number format, you can usually put these reference numbers in the roll number field on an ISA transfer form. This is something I've done many times without any issues. 

If the ISA provider you're transferring from has their own, generic sort code and account number then you can also use those on the form, but I'm fairly sure I have, on occasion, been forced to omit these when in an either/or situation between account number and roll number on an electronic form. On that basis, presumably the originating provider name and reference/roll number is sufficient enough for a transfer to proceed.

topcat105

I asked Moneybox about this as they don't have sort codes and account numbers.
Their reply was that they use my national insurance number.
Don't know how easy this will be as I haven't needed to transfer as yet.

slinger2

meopham47 said:

Only passbook accounts have a roll number. Online accounts always have sort code and account number, with sometimes a reference number too. I know it's early days with T212, and probably nobody has tried to transfer out yet, but I foresee trouble unless T212 changes their system and reveals full account details. As far as I know, they use 3 well-known UK banks to deposit cash ISA money, so the real sort code and account number could relate to any one or more of these.

First point is not true. I've an online-only ISA with the Nationwide - roll number only.

Catplan

slinger2 said:

meopham47 said:

Only passbook accounts have a roll number. Online accounts always have sort code and account number, with sometimes a reference number too. I know it's early days with T212, and probably nobody has tried to transfer out yet, but I foresee trouble unless T212 changes their system and reveals full account details. As far as I know, they use 3 well-known UK banks to deposit cash ISA money, so the real sort code and account number could relate to any one or more of these.

First point is not true. I've an online-only ISA with the Nationwide - roll number only.

I had no passbook for the nationwide isa I transferred with just a roll number, was very smooth, request Sunday, completed Tuesday.

dunstonh

Every ISA provider demands an account number, sort code and (optionally) a reference number to accept an ISA transfer in.

No, they don't.    I have done thousands of ISA transfers, and those are not requirements.

T212 doesn't give you a sort code or proper account number. Their 'account number' is just reference number.

And that is what you would expect.  Nothing wrong there.

Most banks/building societies don't even have T212 on a accepting list for transfers in. T212 itself tells you to ask your new provider to write an e-mail or letter to them in order to obtain those details. None of the new providers would ever bother. They will just reject T212. Of course, you can always withdraw your cash, but then you lose the tax-free status.

And you want to transfer the ISA to a bank or building society that cannot handle a simple request?  
if he bank/bs cannot handle it then they are the problem.

I asked Moneybox about this as they don't have sort codes and account numbers.
Their reply was that they use my national insurance number.
Don't know how easy this will be as I haven't needed to transfer as yet.

Transferring out of moneybox on the NI number is fine.   I did a couple last year for a client (ISA and pension).

jimjames

How long has the T212 ISA been open? Seems very soon to be switching out already

masonic

meopham47 said:

A WORD OF WARNING! T212 makes it easy to accept a transfer in. But Transfers out are almost impossible. Every ISA provider demands an account number, sort code and (optionally) a reference number to accept an ISA transfer in. T212 doesn't give you a sort code or proper account number. Their 'account number' is just reference number. Most banks/building societies don't even have T212 on a accepting list for transfers in. T212 itself tells you to ask your new provider to write an e-mail or letter to them in order to obtain those details. None of the new providers would ever bother. They will just reject T212. Of course, you can always withdraw your cash, but then you lose the tax-free status.

This seems to be more of a word of warning about incompetent banks/building societies than T212. How many banks/building societies have you approached in order to come to the conclusion that all of them are so rubbish?

It is a matter of fact that over the 20 or so years ISAs have existed, few providers assigned a six digit sort code and eight digit account number, typically it was the clearing banks that did. Most of the top paying cash ISAs were issued without sort code and account number, in fact I don't think I've ever held an ISA with this. Yet forumites have been happily transferring ISAs around for decades. That's because virtually no provider has demanded a sort code and account number in order to action a transfer. The minimum information needed to action a transfer is the account holder's name and national insurance number, but most are transferred using an internal provider account number. Even the few providers whose transfer forms asked for sort code/account number (typically only high street banks) had workarounds, such as leaving it blank or entering all zeroes. Because they wanted to receive transfers from as many of the over 500 ISA managers as possible.

It is true that T212 has only just started offering cash ISAs, but they've been an ISA manager for quite a while. It will take some time for the slower providers to catch up and have T212 added to their system if they only accept transfers from other cash ISAs. HMRC regularly grants permission to new providers, as well as some providers changing their details due to mergers, moving customer service centres etc, so this is routine for all of the other ISA managers to keep their records up to date. If your chosen ISA manager to receive the transfer isn't keeping their records up to date, that would be a concern. Most would have a mechanism to get an ISA manager added fairly quickly upon request, but if yours does not, that is another red flag.