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Septic tank (shared) upgrade - what would you do?
Comments
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ian1246 said: I would look into your options to get an urgent court application to issue a prohibition order on any work being done (including disconnecting the existing system) , since the last thing you absolutely want to happen is them going ahead with breaching the easement, replacing the old system & severing your access - you'll almost certainly win in the long run (& be able to recover costs - presumably they each own their houses so have £100,000's of assets to recover court payments from) but the issue is however long it takes for a court to rule on the breach of easement (& rectification of it) your house will be uninhabitable - such a legal battle could easily take years. If your house is uninhabitable for such a period of time... they will have you like a fish in a barrell.
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ian1246 said:I'd tell your neighbours to go forth and multiply and advise them they will be in violation of the easement if they replace the system & cut you off.
The easement is there to protect ALL property owners. What they are threatening is illegal.
I would look into your options to get an urgent court application to issue a prohibition order on any work being done (including disconnecting the existing system) , since the last thing you absolutely want to happen is them going ahead with breaching the easement, replacing the old system & severing your access - you'll almost certainly win in the long run (& be able to recover costs - presumably they each own their houses so have £100,000's of assets to recover court payments from) but the issue is however long it takes for a court to rule on the breach of easement (& rectification of it) your house will be uninhabitable - such a legal battle could easily take years. If your house is uninhabitable for such a period of time... they will have you like a fish in a barrell.
A prohibition order or its equivalent will be a much quicker process & will prevent any work going ahead until all 3 are in agreement. If they dare to go ahead anyway in such circumstances, it would be contempt of court & prison.
I'd also print the easement out & if contractors rock up, give them a copy & tell them your refusing permission to do work on the system. Most legitimate companies will refuse to do work until everyone is in agreement - and if they then ignore you, they are also potentially liable.
This could get really nasty - but if your adamant it won't go on your land & your neighbours ours adamant they'll replace the system & cut you off... you need to be extremely proactive in blocking any work from taking place until an agreement is reached.0 -
As someone suggested earlier, the answer might be tell them you are putting in your own system, and get some quotes for this. but critically tell them in that scenario you willa) not permit any easements over your land eg their drains andb) require them to disclaim any obligation for you to contribute financially to their system, current or future0
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propertyrental said:As someone suggested earlier, the answer might be tell them you are putting in your own system, and get some quotes for this. but critically tell them in that scenario you willa) not permit any easements over your land eg their drains andb) require them to disclaim any obligation for you to contribute financially to their system, current or future
If I go down that route then not only will I need to ensure I get released from the existing easement, but I will also need to ensure they don't infringe my existing easement rights to the existing septic tank before mine is available (6w planning permission delay + legal stuff + actual installation)...otherwise they could leave me high & dry!1 -
ian1246 said:I'd tell your neighbours to go forth and multiply and advise them they will be in violation of the easement if they replace the system & cut you off.
The easement is there to protect ALL property owners. What they are threatening is illegal.
I'd also print the easement out & if contractors rock up, give them a copy & tell them your refusing permission to do work on the system. Most legitimate companies will refuse to do work until everyone is in agreement - and if they then ignore you, they are also potentially liable.Just an example - they do work. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166616769496?0 -
ThisIsWeird said:ian1246 said:I'd tell your neighbours to go forth and multiply and advise them they will be in violation of the easement if they replace the system & cut you off.
The easement is there to protect ALL property owners. What they are threatening is illegal.
I'd also print the easement out & if contractors rock up, give them a copy & tell them your refusing permission to do work on the system. Most legitimate companies will refuse to do work until everyone is in agreement - and if they then ignore you, they are also potentially liable.Just an example - they do work. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166616769496?
Got brief legal advice which is to sit tight. If they make a move without my agreement then they're violating my easement rights. If they don't make a move then the environment agency can prosecute...the ball is in their court1 -
Something else to think about - for you all - is getting a quote to change the plumbing a bit so that not all the rainwater goes through the expensive septic tank or whatever is put in. I don't know if it would be easy or cost effective in the long run, but it seems worth asking.
But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,Had the whole of their cash in his care.
Lewis Carroll2 -
theoretica said:Something else to think about - for you all - is getting a quote to change the plumbing a bit so that not all the rainwater goes through the expensive septic tank or whatever is put in. I don't know if it would be easy or cost effective in the long run, but it seems worth asking.A small sewage treatment plant will likely not function properly with that quantity of water going through it.It is dependent on (good!) bacteria in the tank getting to work eating the nasty stuff coming down the pipes. If the nasty stuff is washed out too quickly, as will happen whenever it rains, then you'll be flushing nasty stuff into the ditch, drain, river, whatever and might as well have an illegal septic tank......1
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There is a ditch where the current septic tank runs in to. Would that be a contender for the rainwater? Save having to dig for a soakaway. Or won't it conform?1
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Update:
Legal protection with home insurance will only be triggered if neighbours cause a nuisance - eg cut me off from the sewage supply. TBC whether not including me in a new system would be deemed a nuisance.
Legal advice: The covenant is not as well worded as they are nowadays, so it's not crystal clear whether I have an automatic right to a new shared system in a different location. HOWEVER:
- They cannot cut me off from the existing tank, or they will infringe the existing easement
- Because we're having to replace it due to regulations forcing us to, there's a strong case for my having a right to any new shared system
- They can get their own system put in and not include me (but this would mean they have to reposition the drains as they leave their house, and it would be impossible for them to include their son, who lives the other side of me and whose drains join mine on the way through my garden, in the new system, so EVERYONE would have to have an individual system)
So I think I just sit tight.
If they get their own individual system, then they f**k everyone up including themselves and their son. I use the existing tank while my planning permission goes through etc.
Or they keep the status quo and we all use a shared system on their property like Old Times.
One could argue that I would have a litigation case against them but it would very much depend upon how the court interpreted the wishy washy covenant on the existing septic tank. But it seems mad that a historic use of a shared system suddenly stops when it has to be replaced due to a Regulation change...
This morning's jobs - contact Environment Agency to make sure I"m not getting myself in trouble, smile and nod throughout the meeting with neighbours and favoured installer, meeting to get a quote for an individual system, then compose a decent email setting out my position.
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