PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.

We're aware that dates on the forum are not currently showing correctly, and that mobile users may see some extra spacing between threads. Please bear with us while we get this fixed.
We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum. This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are - or become - political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
We're aware that dates on the Forum are not currently showing correctly. Please bear with us while we get this fixed, and see Site Feedback for updates.

Septic tank (shared) upgrade - what would you do?

1356717

Comments

  • AJC211
    AJC211 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    So very sorry.  I had a railway station where the land had been divided when the various other buildings were sold.  I shared a septic tank with my immediate semi detached neighbours.  The shared drain was in my north courtyard, the septic tank was on their driveway,  but the soakaway was in the direct neighbour's driveway.  We started having to have our tank emptied every few months and asked the direct neighbour if we could go onto his land to investigate .... we'd seen him using a digger, and suspected he'd broken the pipe.  He refused, so ridiculous, it took six months, a solicitor, and the promise to 'hand dig' out the pipe to avoid any damage to his 'gravel' on the drive.  Just power, wasn't it.
    Nail on the head! These guys know their stuff and they know they can have me over a barrel and can just cut me off rather than dig their garden up (grass regrows?!). Ah well, all fun and games…!
  • ThisIsWeird
    ThisIsWeird Posts: 7,633 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 4 June 2024 am30 9:15AM
    Hi AJC.
    Why is there suddenly this urgency to have it sorted? You are all being careful, and you're having it pumped out every 6 months in any case. Is there an actual problem at the moment? Can't this change wait for a year or so while you all think through the alternatives properly?
    Looking at the medium to longer term solution, I think I'd ask myself, "If starting from scratch, where is the best/most suitable/most obvious and logical location for a shared treatment plant?".  
    And looking into the longer term, you could ask "when there comes the time that we can hopefully connect to the mains, where would the easiest connection point be?"
    I fear the answers to both will point at your garden? :smile:
    Research STPs, and it'll hopefully put your mind at rest. 
    And then, if you can, through gritted teeth, tell your neighb's you've thought it through and...
  • propertyrental
    propertyrental Posts: 3,391 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 4 June 2024 am30 9:52AM
    AJC211 said:
    What does the easement say?

    Basically a right to use, and contribute to the maintenance repair and renewal, of the cesspit under then property in red, then on the deeds the cesspit is marked on my neighbours property. The implication being (and my neighbour has a legal property background) that my rights are specific to THAT septic tank. It’s in the deeds from 1965 and it might even be that old!

    I'm always a bit suspicious when posters start posts like this with 'basically.....'. On legal issues, one has to be precise!
    However, assuming this is written into a deed, registered against both properties, then it would seem clear:
    " a right to use, and contribute to the maintenance repair and renewal, of the cesspit"
    So if it stops working they have to renew it and continue to allow you to use the renewal (and contribute to the cost).
    If the law has changed requiring renewal by an alternative system, then they must do that. Or they choose, with your agreement, to renew with a different system, that's fine too.
    But they must renew or repair.

  • MeteredOut
    MeteredOut Posts: 2,410 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 4 June 2024 am30 9:50AM
    AJC211 said:
    What does the easement say?

    Basically a right to use, and contribute to the maintenance repair and renewal, of the cesspit under then property in red, then on the deeds the cesspit is marked on my neighbours property. The implication being (and my neighbour has a legal property background) that my rights are specific to THAT septic tank. It’s in the deeds from 1965 and it might even be that old!
    Can you post the exact wording of the easement? I very much doubt the intent of the easement was to cover that one-and-only septic tank, and not any future replacement. 

    If it does say "...and renewal", that is a strong indicator.
  • AJC211
    AJC211 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    Hi AJC.
    Why is there suddenly this urgency to have it sorted? You are all being careful, and you're having it pumped out every 6 months in any case. Is there an actual problem at the moment? Can't this change wait for a year or so while you all think through the alternatives properly?
    Looking at the medium to longer term solution, I think I'd ask myself, "If starting from scratch, where is the best/most suitable/most obvious and logical location for a shared treatment plant?".  
    And looking into the longer term, you could ask "when there comes the time that we can hopefully connect to the mains, where would the easiest connection point be?"
    I fear the answers to both will point at your garden? :smile:
    Research STPs, and it'll hopefully put your mind at rest. 
    And then, if you can, through gritted teeth, tell your neighb's you've thought it through and...
    Thanks for your thoughts. The urgency comes from:
    - the system is currently illegal as it does not meet regulations. It should have been replaced by 2020 before I bought the property, I was not aware of this until recently
    - neighbours have a damp patch in their lawn so suspect pipe leakage which if it is then they can legitimately say there’s a problem right now that need dealing with. If they suspect foul discharge in their garden they can claim the system has failed and needs replacement 

    the easiest replacement would be in my neighbours garden. Putting it in my property isn’t any easier (it’s harder), it simply means digging up my property and changing my property to being responsible for a share system, instead of their property having the digging and shared system and associated hassle. I didn’t buy a property with a shared system, and frankly I and others might not have bought the house had it had a shared system. It would’ve been one stretch too far for me. I would rather have my own system if possible than risk future issues if I sell the house or I have less pleasant neighbours in the future. I’m trying to future proof my property
  • propertyrental
    propertyrental Posts: 3,391 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Hi AJC.
    Why is there suddenly this urgency to have it sorted? You are all being careful, and you're having it pumped out every 6 months in any case. Is there an actual problem at the moment? Can't this change wait for a year or so while you all think through the alternatives properly?
    Looking at the medium to longer term solution, I think I'd ask myself, "If starting from scratch, where is the best/most suitable/most obvious and logical location for a shared treatment plant?".  
    And looking into the longer term, you could ask "when there comes the time that we can hopefully connect to the mains, where would the easiest connection point be?"
    I fear the answers to both will point at your garden? :smile:
    Research STPs, and it'll hopefully put your mind at rest. 
    And then, if you can, through gritted teeth, tell your neighb's you've thought it through and...

    On the one hand, yes. The system is working and being pumped out at not unreasonable intervals.
    On the other hand it is discharging illegally into a ditch. If the EA found out they would take legal action. And even if they don't, it's an environmentally disgusting process.......

  • AJC211
    AJC211 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    Hi AJC.
    Why is there suddenly this urgency to have it sorted? You are all being careful, and you're having it pumped out every 6 months in any case. Is there an actual problem at the moment? Can't this change wait for a year or so while you all think through the alternatives properly?
    Looking at the medium to longer term solution, I think I'd ask myself, "If starting from scratch, where is the best/most suitable/most obvious and logical location for a shared treatment plant?".  
    And looking into the longer term, you could ask "when there comes the time that we can hopefully connect to the mains, where would the easiest connection point be?"
    I fear the answers to both will point at your garden? :smile:
    Research STPs, and it'll hopefully put your mind at rest. 
    And then, if you can, through gritted teeth, tell your neighb's you've thought it through and...

    On the one hand, yes. The system is working and being pumped out at not unreasonable intervals.
    On the other hand it is discharging illegally into a ditch. If the EA found out they would take legal action. And even if they don't, it's an environmentally disgusting process.......

    Yes there is no doubt that this system needs replacing ASAP!
  • AJC211
    AJC211 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    Here we go…the wording of the easement. Especially note 3 “mutually covenant each with the other and their successors…from time to time contribute 1/3rd each of the costs of….renewing…said sewer or drain and cesspool”. To me this means the current system gets replaced, and we all pay 1/3rd, and I have a right to access to the new system. I am getting legal advice!

    The owner (of ASP) has agreed that the sewer or drain and cesspool laid beneath the surface oft he said land coloured red may be used by the grantees in manner hereinafter appearing
    1 .The grantees shall pay all legal charges in connection with this deed
    2. In consideration of the premises the owner (of ASP) as beneficial owner hereby grants unto the grantees full right and liberty for the grantees and their successors in title the owners and occupiers of the property (MC) aforesaid shown on the said plan and there on colour green and brown and their respective servants and licensees (in common with the owner and all others having the like right) to use the said sewer or drain and cesspool for the passage or conveyance of what are and soil from the said property colour green and brown on the said plan and for the purpose of repairing and maintaining the said sewer or drain and cesspool as may be reasonable and proper in that behalf (making good nevertheless at their own expense all damage or disturbance which may be caused to any building or erection on or to the surface of the said land colour red on the said plan in carrying out such repairs or maintenance (but not for any other purpose) to enter upon the said land coloured red on the said plan to hold the same unto the grantees in fee simple
    3. The parties hereto hereby mutually covenant each with the other and their successors in title that they and their respective successors in title will from time to time contribute one0third each of the costs of inspecting repairing renewing relaying cleaning emptying and maintaining the said sewer or drain and cesspool
  • AJC211
    AJC211 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    This is how I interpreted it too, @propertyrental - the system is replaced, I have a commitment to pay 1/3rd, and I have a right to use the new one. 

    They are also refusing to get 3 quotes for the new system, and are specifying one particular installer who I have yet to meet and who hasn’t even quoted for a replacement system on the existing property yet (but who has been excellent on email comms with me, is local, but has so far only quoted for a system on my land). If I am going to pay 1/3rd the cost, I think it’s reasonable to get more than 1 quote. To me it seems fairly simple that we all have to agree on:
    - does it need to be reaplaced - yes, we agree
    - does it need to be replaced on existing property - no agreement yet
    - what are the costs - no agreement yet, as refusing further quotes
    - what system will we use - no agreement yet, as we’ve wasted time getting quotes to move it to my land, and to put it in the existing property’s garden, which they’ve now decided they won’t do

    To me it is simple; we need a new system, in the existing property, we get 3 quotes (for a location the owner is happy with), we choose a quote, we all pay 1/3rd, we continue to share and get along….
  • 400ixl
    400ixl Posts: 4,134 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    Where is the other 3rd party in this discussion? What is their point of view and is the property owner it is in also telling them that they will refuse access if it has to be replaced on their land?

    All 3 have to be in agreement, not just you and the property owner for where it is located.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 348.3K Banking & Borrowing
  • 252.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 452.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 240.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 617.2K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 175.6K Life & Family
  • 254.1K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.