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Septic tank (shared) upgrade - what would you do?

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Comments

  • AJC211
    AJC211 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 5 June 2024 at 1:44PM
    Apparently getting my own system will involve digging up my front path, garden, etc etc so a LOT of upheaval. And an extra £1k to get it set in concrete and supported enough to withstand vehicles on it, because my neighbour has vehicular access rights over the patch of grass it would go on. I’ll also need a pump to get it across the driveway (more potential to go wrong), then a manhole/bend, then down to my drainage ditch. The system might not cope with the rainwater that goes into it (not ideal, rainwater shouldn’t go into it, but it does)…Whereas a shared system will be that much larger and better able to cope with the same amount of rainwater (the rainwater comes via my drains, so my own system would have to deal with it if I went solo).

    It’ll cost me almost the same to have my own system as it would to have a shared one (when I’ll only need to pay 1/3rd), like £12-14k…(south east England) 

    Oh and I”ll need to get planning permission before work starts, so a delay of 6w (while the neighbours champ at the bit!)

    So, planning permission, upheaval, cost, potential rainwater issues…

    Looking like I’ll need to go for a shared one, but I’m still going to try and prevent any of it going on my land. 
  • AJC211
    AJC211 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    yes that’s right I’m in the middle, my pipes join those coming across from neighbour then onwards to the 3rd cottage
  • ThisIsWeird
    ThisIsWeird Posts: 7,613 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 5 June 2024 at 4:38PM
    I think you've made your own argument for continuing with the SQ!
    Have you looked at all three sets of deeds? Do they indicate where the septic tank currently lies? If so, to alter that would be an additional LR complication, so another reason to not change the TP's location.
    On a side note, to dispose of your rainwater separately should be relatively easy for you to do, I'd have thought, via a soakaway on your own land. If having such surface water removed from the mix mean that the new TP will perform better and with fewer cleaning spells, then that could be a useful item to bring to the table - but the others should do the same. 
    I cannot see any way that the other two can force the relocation of the new TP. It would have to be shown as being pretty much the only option before they'd have any chance; it would require serious evidence. And that just cannot exist - the existing ST has been there for X years/decades, serving all three properties, and has done its job with no issues until now - and even that recent problem is likely to be due to a broken supply pipe, and nothing to do with location.
    Let us know what your LegProt says.
  • AJC211
    AJC211 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    Definitely calling insurers on Monday to see if they’ll cover this. 

    Have got a good, experienced (expensive!) litigation solicitor on standby. First step will be for her to look at all the paperwork (2h work 😬) and see where I stand with regards easement rights, establish if I have a right to a new shared system on the existing property. The first chunk of work/legal advice will likely cost me £1.5k. 

    Neighbour just grabbed me for a chat AGAIN while I was in my garden. Says if the new system can squeeze into their yard behind the garage then they’ll only include me in this shared system if I put the drainage through my lane. 

    If it doesn’t fit in where they want it, the existing property’s owner will refuse to include me in a new system on their land. 

    The only other way I can share a system is by having the whole thing on my land. 

    Essentially they are forcing me to at least have the drainage on my land, if not the whole thing, under threat of being cut off a new shared system. 

    Lovely! Just, lovely….
  • propertyrental
    propertyrental Posts: 3,391 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Nice neighbours!
  • AJC211
    AJC211 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    Nice neighbours!
    They were until now 😢This home is my dream come true and I don’t want them to ruin it by being like this 😖
  • ThisIsWeird
    ThisIsWeird Posts: 7,613 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    AJC211 said:
    Definitely calling insurers on Monday to see if they’ll cover this. 

    Have got a good, experienced (expensive!) litigation solicitor on standby. First step will be for her to look at all the paperwork (2h work 😬) and see where I stand with regards easement rights, establish if I have a right to a new shared system on the existing property. The first chunk of work/legal advice will likely cost me £1.5k. 

    Neighbour just grabbed me for a chat AGAIN while I was in my garden. Says if the new system can squeeze into their yard behind the garage then they’ll only include me in this shared system if I put the drainage through my lane. 

    If it doesn’t fit in where they want it, the existing property’s owner will refuse to include me in a new system on their land. 

    The only other way I can share a system is by having the whole thing on my land. 

    Essentially they are forcing me to at least have the drainage on my land, if not the whole thing, under threat of being cut off a new shared system. 

    Lovely! Just, lovely….

    What is their 'reasoning' for this?
    What a shame you aren't recording all these conversations - it could be very useful.
    £15 pocket video recorder on t'Bay.
  • AJC211
    AJC211 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 9 June 2024 at 7:48AM
    AJC211 said:
    Definitely calling insurers on Monday to see if they’ll cover this. 

    Have got a good, experienced (expensive!) litigation solicitor on standby. First step will be for her to look at all the paperwork (2h work 😬) and see where I stand with regards easement rights, establish if I have a right to a new shared system on the existing property. The first chunk of work/legal advice will likely cost me £1.5k. 

    Neighbour just grabbed me for a chat AGAIN while I was in my garden. Says if the new system can squeeze into their yard behind the garage then they’ll only include me in this shared system if I put the drainage through my lane. 

    If it doesn’t fit in where they want it, the existing property’s owner will refuse to include me in a new system on their land. 

    The only other way I can share a system is by having the whole thing on my land. 

    Essentially they are forcing me to at least have the drainage on my land, if not the whole thing, under threat of being cut off a new shared system. 

    Lovely! Just, lovely….

    What is their 'reasoning' for this?
    What a shame you aren't recording all these conversations - it could be very useful.
    £15 pocket video recorder on t'Bay.
    I have written confirmation that they believe my easement does not give me a right to a new shared system, therefore they will only include me in a replacement  shared system if I put some or all of it on my land. 

    I disagree with their interpretation of the easement and have said as much. If necessary the whole thing gets paused while I/we get legal advice. Such a mountain out of a molehill!

    the silly thing is, they think they can persuade me over costs, but I’d rather spend more and get my own system TBH, so they may regret refusing me a new shared system as it will end up being more expensive and difficult for them too, if I am
    not included in the shared one. They’re putting all their eggs in one basket, assuming I will give in to their demands. I’m more likely to go solo than do that, they underestimate my stubborn independent streak 😬
  • ThisIsWeird
    ThisIsWeird Posts: 7,613 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 9 June 2024 at 11:57AM
    AJC211 said:
    What is their 'reasoning' for this?
    What a shame you aren't recording all these conversations - it could be very useful.
    £15 pocket video recorder on t'Bay.
    I have written confirmation that they believe my easement does not give me a right to a new shared system, therefore they will only include me in a replacement  shared system if I put some or all of it on my land. 

    I disagree with their interpretation of the easement and have said as much. If necessary the whole thing gets paused while I/we get legal advice. Such a mountain out of a molehill!

    the silly thing is, they think they can persuade me over costs, but I’d rather spend more and get my own system TBH, so they may regret refusing me a new shared system as it will end up being more expensive and difficult for them too, if I am
    not included in the shared one. They’re putting all their eggs in one basket, assuming I will give in to their demands. I’m more likely to go solo than do that, they underestimate my stubborn independent streak 😬
    So, their 'reasoning' is their 'interpretation of the deeds'? Ok, that should hopefully be simple to ascertain.
    Good luck with your LegProt on Monday - I hope they are switched on. They may expect you to do some work first, possibly even pay for a specialist solicitor to decipher the deeds. I wonder - surely conveyancing solicitors are 'specialists' in this area, so would it be worth asking whoever you used for the purchase to do this? In theory, it should cost less than a normal house conveyancing process, as you are only looking at one clause! But, I guess that's wishful thinking...
    Anyhoo, I'd write down a bulletpoint list of things that must be determined - any remaining liability to the others if you go it alone. Any easement they could still force over your land for, say, drainage pipes even if you go it alone, that sort of stuff.
    Good luck :-)


  • ian1246
    ian1246 Posts: 340 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 9 June 2024 at 9:16AM
    I'd tell your neighbours to go forth and multiply and advise them they will be in violation of the easement if they replace the system & cut you off.

    The easement is there to protect ALL property owners. What they are threatening is illegal.

    I would look into your options to get an urgent court application to issue a prohibition order on any work being done (including disconnecting the existing system) , since the last thing you absolutely want to happen is them going ahead with breaching the easement, replacing the old system & severing your access - you'll almost certainly win in the long run (& be able to recover costs - presumably they each own their houses so have £100,000's of assets to recover court payments from) but the issue is however long it takes for a court to rule on the breach of easement (& rectification of it) your house will be uninhabitable - such a legal battle could easily take years. If your house is uninhabitable for such a period of time... they will have you like a fish in a barrell.

    A prohibition order or its equivalent will be a much quicker process & will prevent any work going ahead until all 3 are in agreement. If they dare to go ahead anyway in such circumstances, it would be contempt of court & prison.

    I'd also print the easement out & if contractors rock up, give them a copy & tell them your refusing permission to do work on the system. Most legitimate companies will refuse to do work until everyone is in agreement - and if they then ignore you, they are also potentially liable.

    This could get really nasty - but if your adamant it won't go on your land & your neighbours ours adamant they'll replace the system & cut you off... you need to be extremely proactive in blocking any work from taking place until an agreement is reached.

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