Septic tank (shared) upgrade - what would you do?

AJC211

Hi all,
I have belatedly learnt about septic tank regs - I should have known about them when I bought my house in 2021, but my solicitor didn’t flag up any potentially illegal water discharge (my survey did suggest a septic tank specialist survey, which I didn’t do, silly me!). I am surprised by this, as I thought that’s what solicitors were for. Hey ho…

Septic tank is shared between 3 old cottages, located in my neighbour’s property. Nowadays it would be considered undersized, but the 6 people using it are frugal and it’s emptied every 6 months. It drains into a ditch (apparently, although this was not information included in any of my house buying documents; from what I’ve read my solicitor should have raised this with the vendor). 

Q - Was my solicitor negligent in not raising the issue of a potentially illegal waste water discharge?

We are now all aware of the regulations and discussing Upgrade options. We’ve had a few companies out to provide advice/quotes. Our options are:
1 - (CIWEM certified waste management company) Get a £750 survey done, to assess whether our current system is working, legal, and advice on upgrades (and whether any permissions etc are needed). CIWEM membership means they provide a guarantee that the system meets legal requirements, and this is insured to £500,000. I suspect the results of the survey will say; your system is too small and you can’t eject waste into the ditch, get a new digester and a drainage field…

The other 2 companies have not mentioned any guarantees about the system meeting legal requirements (the new tanks meet British Standards, but if/when you sell a house I think you also need to prove that the drainage is also legal?)

2 - New digester and drainage in neighbour’s property (as per current arrangement). 

3 - New digester and drainage in MY property

I am under pressure from neighbours to move the entire waste system to my land (it will probably cost less to install, I’m closer to the road for ease of emptying). I have reservations. If we go this route I will want a CIWEM member to install it, so if/when I sell the house I have the reassurance that it meets legal requirements. I will also need to instruct a solicitor to draw up the legal side of having a shared waste system on my land, won’t I? 

Q - What would you do? Would you consider moving the system to your land? I feel iffy about it…

Q - Final question…I have solar power and battery storage. New waste systems use electricity to aerate or mix. Whilst this will be metered and we will share the ‘costs’, how will it work alongside my solar system? Won’t it be a constant draw on my ‘free’ electricity during the day (which would otherwise go towards my personal use or battery storage, meaning I have to pay for more from the grid as a result)? This might sound petty but I’ve done a lot of calculations, taken quite a big risk, and invested a lot of money, time and sanity in setting my home up to be energy efficient and sustainable. I haven’t factored in running a waste system on it constantly. I don’t want to muck it up just so my neighbour can save their lawn…

FreeBear

Another option - You each have your own compliant sewerage system. Will cost each household more, but saves on any future arguments over who pays what.

propertyrental

My last home shared an old septic tank in the neighbours' garden. It started leaking, plus despite numerous efforts we were unable to establish where the outflow went.

Initially neighbour wanted to install a new septic tank with outflow to a drainage field on his land. Once we started getting quotes, it became clear that a new drainage field was expensive so we went for a Small Sewage Treatment Plant. This cost more than a new septic tank, but the outflow (clean almost drinking quality!) was much cheaper than a drainage field. Of course it depends what options you have for the outflow.

Used properly (no sanitary towels!), pumping out is required far less than with a septic tank.

In fact at each of the first 3 annual services we were told pumping out was not needed (I sold and left so no idea what happened this year).

Electricity is minimal. The STP user manual we had gave electricity consumption and we took the average per KW charge between our 2 properties (as we were on different tariffs) and agreed I would re-imburse my neighbour on that basis.

In practice the amount was so small he never requested it - we just shared installation costs and annual service (required by EA and also for the warranty)

That's also what was written into the Deed we registered against both properties ie allowing me to use his STP, and gain access in emergency if required.

Sizing the STP is based on the number of bedrooms.

As for moving the system to your land, yes this could make sense for ease of access for occasional pumping out, for the outflow (though that depends on the topography), provided

* all installation costs are shared equally

* proper Deed is Executed by all 3 neighbours and lodged with the Land Registry, and of course

* assuming you have the space on your land!

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster

These three cottages aren't in Kent are they..? I pulled out of buying a property with a non complaint system serving three cottages last year. Wondered how the neighbours who bought in 2021 got around it.


As there is more than one property have you approached the sewage undertaker to see if they will consider mains connection? They are obliged if you can prove it is causing pollution. 

mark_cycling00

Firstly are you really sure it's illegal and must be replaced?

Discharging into a water course is bad but there are probably a million properties off-drainage and noone is going to jail over it. Very few people are in a panic about it but there are plenty of companies and organisations with a vested interest in making you panic and spend lots of money.

I'm guessing this situation is a new thing for you  and it can feel very scary. It's also difficult for all concerned, for your neighbours it's probably all been fine for decades but now there's a new owner of the shared tank. 

I went through the same thing, mine is shared with some neighbours. After moving I was worried and wanted to replace asap. They calmly asked me to see how it went for a year or two first before thinking about replacement. It's just fine, noone ever needs to empty any of the tanks in the village. There are no smells, no standing water nothing. We all discharge into what's now a SSSI of world importance featured on Netflix documentaries. We certainly aren't polluting it, we do try to use eco products for all cleaning and it feels much better than dumping any old nasty chemicals into a municipal drainage system for someone else to try and deal with 

I'd forget trying sue people, stay calm and not rush into it things. It will be best to have a solution that keeps you in good terms with your neighbours and see their point of view. 

AJC211

propertyrental said:

My last home shared an old septic tank in the neighbours' garden. It started leaking, plus despite numerous efforts we were unable to establish where the outflow went.

Initially neighbour wanted to install a new septic tank with outflow to a drainage field on his land. Once we started getting quotes, it became clear that a new drainage field was expensive so we went for a Small Sewage Treatment Plant. This cost more than a new septic tank, but the outflow (clean almost drinking quality!) was much cheaper than a drainage field. Of course it depends what options you have for the outflow.

Used properly (no sanitary towels!), pumping out is required far less than with a septic tank.

In fact at each of the first 3 annual services we were told pumping out was not needed (I sold and left so no idea what happened this year).

Electricity is minimal. The STP user manual we had gave electricity consumption and we took the average per KW charge between our 2 properties (as we were on different tariffs) and agreed I would re-imburse my neighbour on that basis.

In practice the amount was so small he never requested it - we just shared installation costs and annual service (required by EA and also for the warranty)

That's also what was written into the Deed we registered against both properties ie allowing me to use his STP, and gain access in emergency if required.

Sizing the STP is based on the number of bedrooms.

As for moving the system to your land, yes this could make sense for ease of access for occasional pumping out, for the outflow (though that depends on the topography), provided

* all installation costs are shared equally

* proper Deed is Executed by all 3 neighbours and lodged with the Land Registry, and of course

* assuming you have the space on your land!

This is all really helpful thank you! STP is what we’re getting quotes for. Good to hear the electricity is minimal too!

I do have space on my land but I am worried that in future if anything goes wrong with the system, it might effect how I use the land (haven’t decided yet), and if my neighbours don’t agree with what needs doing, then it’s MY problem on MY land…one of my neighbours likes to DIY solutions and find cheapest solutions, which would worry me if it was on my land!

AJC211

It’s actually my neighbours pushing for a new system! I’d be quite happy to carry on with the current system BUT it is not currently legal as it discharges into a ditch, and current regs say these systems should have been replaced by 2020 (not sure why this wasn’t addressed before i bought the house though). 

AJC211

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster said:

These three cottages aren't in Kent are they..? I pulled out of buying a property with a non complaint system serving three cottages last year. Wondered how the neighbours who bought in 2021 got around it.


As there is more than one property have you approached the sewage undertaker to see if they will consider mains connection? They are obliged if you can prove it is causing pollution. 

Good idea, worth a shot, but I think we’re a long way from mains sewage sadly! 

Not Kent but Sussex, there’s plenty of old rural cottages down this way with septic tanks still! PiTA!

AJC211

Also how did you know the system was illegal? Did your solicitor raise the concern? I am surprised mine did not. 

Grumpy_chap

AJC211 said:

Hi all,
I have belatedly learnt about septic tank regs - I should have known about them when I bought my house in 2021, but my solicitor didn’t flag up any potentially illegal water discharge (my survey did suggest a septic tank specialist survey, which I didn’t do, silly me!). I am surprised by this, as I thought that’s what solicitors were for. Hey ho…

Septic tank is shared between 3 old cottages, located in my neighbour’s property. Nowadays it would be considered undersized, but the 6 people using it are frugal and it’s emptied every 6 months. It drains into a ditch (apparently, although this was not information included in any of my house buying documents; from what I’ve read my solicitor should have raised this with the vendor). 

Q - Was my solicitor negligent in not raising the issue of a potentially illegal waste water discharge?

We are now all aware of the regulations and discussing Upgrade options. We’ve had a few companies out to provide advice/quotes. Our options are:
1 - (CIWEM certified waste management company) Get a £750 survey done, to assess whether our current system is working, legal, and advice on upgrades (and whether any permissions etc are needed). CIWEM membership means they provide a guarantee that the system meets legal requirements, and this is insured to £500,000. I suspect the results of the survey will say; your system is too small and you can’t eject waste into the ditch, get a new digester and a drainage field…

The other 2 companies have not mentioned any guarantees about the system meeting legal requirements (the new tanks meet British Standards, but if/when you sell a house I think you also need to prove that the drainage is also legal?)

2 - New digester and drainage in neighbour’s property (as per current arrangement). 

3 - New digester and drainage in MY property

I am under pressure from neighbours to move the entire waste system to my land (it will probably cost less to install, I’m closer to the road for ease of emptying). I have reservations. If we go this route I will want a CIWEM member to install it, so if/when I sell the house I have the reassurance that it meets legal requirements. I will also need to instruct a solicitor to draw up the legal side of having a shared waste system on my land, won’t I? 

Q - What would you do? Would you consider moving the system to your land? I feel iffy about it…

Q - Final question…I have solar power and battery storage. New waste systems use electricity to aerate or mix. Whilst this will be metered and we will share the ‘costs’, how will it work alongside my solar system? Won’t it be a constant draw on my ‘free’ electricity during the day (which would otherwise go towards my personal use or battery storage, meaning I have to pay for more from the grid as a result)? This might sound petty but I’ve done a lot of calculations, taken quite a big risk, and invested a lot of money, time and sanity in setting my home up to be energy efficient and sustainable. I haven’t factored in running a waste system on it constantly. I don’t want to muck it up just so my neighbour can save their lawn…

$750 (probably plus VAT) for an Engineer to provide independent assessment and report of option is a competitive price.

With CIWEM, they are unusual among professional bodies in that they have membership grades that allow designation as "Member" (M) CIWEM that is not Chartered.  You want Chartered Member CIWEM.

Before paying out any money, it is probably first worth asking the local Statutory Sewage Undertaker (Southern Water in Sussex) whether they can connect the properties (or your property at least) to the public sewer.  I assume there was nothing when the properties were built but there may be a service now that can be connected to.

chrisw

I'd want my own system on my own property and let the others worry about theirs. It might cost more initially but could save loads of hassle or arguments in the future.