Joint inheritance moral and logistical dilemma.

Sarahspangles

Geriatricmum said:

Sarahspangles said:

What are the arrangements in Spain for someone who lacks capacity, if there is nobody in the family able/willing to act for them? Is there a scenario where you hand your sister’s care to whatever that authority is? Even if you got on with your sister, you’re in another country with a family of your own.

I don't know. I'd need to do a bit of research. I don't want to suggest my sister undergoes some sort of analysis to determine her capacity my parents won't allow it and will insist she is capable and she'll be OK as they have been doing.

The thing is I believe my sister could be capable of managing her own life, she just hasn't been for the last 44 years. She won't be able to just pick it up once they are gone. They should be handing over financial management of the home to her now so they can guide her through her mistakes whilst they are still here... But they won't. 

You’re making me think of the film ‘Sweetie’.

If something happened to your parents now, how long is she likely to manage before something breaks down? What prevents wicked uncle offering to ‘help’?

Geriatricmum

Sarahspangles said:

Geriatricmum said:

Sarahspangles said:

What are the arrangements in Spain for someone who lacks capacity, if there is nobody in the family able/willing to act for them? Is there a scenario where you hand your sister’s care to whatever that authority is? Even if you got on with your sister, you’re in another country with a family of your own.

I don't know. I'd need to do a bit of research. I don't want to suggest my sister undergoes some sort of analysis to determine her capacity my parents won't allow it and will insist she is capable and she'll be OK as they have been doing.

The thing is I believe my sister could be capable of managing her own life, she just hasn't been for the last 44 years. She won't be able to just pick it up once they are gone. They should be handing over financial management of the home to her now so they can guide her through her mistakes whilst they are still here... But they won't. 

You’re making me think of the film ‘Sweetie’.

If something happened to your parents now, how long is she likely to manage before something breaks down? What prevents wicked uncle offering to ‘help’?

I probably would need to go to Spain to organise her finances. With two young children and a job this would be difficult. 

She is aware of the actions of my uncle. I'm worried about other family members coming out of the woodwork as financial leeches. 

sheramber

Brie said:

If London property does not = Spanish property then you could simply ask your sister to sell a portion of the London property so there's a split by country.  So London-£50k = Spanish+£50k.  

re POA - an easy suggestion to your parents is that they both give you POA for the London flat so you can manage it on their behalf.  Much easier for you from the UK when they are elsewhere.  You can DIY these for about £85 and no solicitors need to be involved.  I don't know however whether they would need to be witnessed and signed in the UK or if your dad could get his witnessed and signed in Spain.  Must admit I've never seen anything about this on the gov.uk site.   

There is no need for a POA for the parents . They are capable of dealing with thier own affairs.

A POA ceases on the death of the provider so would not apply after they dies.

The POA would be for the sister in respect of the London flat after both sisters inherited it,  and the sister would be the one to agree to that.

thegreenone

I have read through the thread, so apologies if I've missed the answers:

Are your parents still married or would Mum buy her own house, when she moves over?
Does she have another property in London, other than the flat?

If sister already owns Dad's house surely the Will will not be a 50/50 split, it will be 75/25 in your sister's favour?

If Mum, Dad and Sister are saying they will not sell the flats (even after death) you are left with half a London flat.  That's even more unfair.

sheramber

thegreenone said:

I have read through the thread, so apologies if I've missed the answers:

Are your parents still married or would Mum buy her own house, when she moves over?
Does she have another property in London, other than the flat?

If sister already owns Dad's house surely the Will will not be a 50/50 split, it will be 75/25 in your sister's favour?

If Mum, Dad and Sister are saying they will not sell the flats (even after death) you are left with half a London flat.  That's even more unfair.

Assets: two flats in Spain which are rented out. One flat in London which is also rented out.

Sister owns house she lives in with father.

Spendless

I wonder if this might be better suited to the death/funeral part of the forum. I appreciate it's 'nearby' but there's knowledgeable people on there who don't always come to this bit who might make a practical solution not already thought of/suggested so far.

Ultimately though @Pollycat is correct. You have asked your parents to make their will a different way, they've refused. You can't force them. In the same way you could go make a will leaving everything equally to all 3 of your kids and if one of them asked you to do it differently you are not obligated to do so and there'd be nothing your child could do about that. This is exactly the same thing. .

By the same context if you have no wish to be financially connected to your sister after your parents deaths, do one can make you do that either. You need to forget the London flat remaining as an asset if the only way to have that is the tie to your sister you don't want, sell it, move on use the money for something else.

You are also (IMO) jumping the gun a bit regarding this, already touched on in this thread, yes many of us do survive both our parents not all though, you or your sister could go before your remaining parent. If they were in the UK, care home fees would also be being fetched up but no idea what happens in Spain.  .

Mojisola

Geriatricmum said:

Assets: two flats in Spain which are rented out. One flat in London which is also rented out.

They ..... insisted that all properties are split 50/50. The will for the property in London is now drawn up, they are currently in the process of writing a will for the Spanish properties.

If everything was covered in one will, you and your sister would have the option of making a deed of variation to change the distribution of their assets but the two wills in separate countries makes the whole thing much more difficult.

When you do eventually inherits, would it be possible for you and your sister to agree for her to give up her inheritance under the English will and you give up yours under the Spanish one?

You would need to do everything using solicitors, especially considering your sister's condition so that no-one can claim you took advantage of her.  It would be even better if she ends up with a greater share than you as a result of doing this.

sheramber

Mojisola said:

Geriatricmum said:

Assets: two flats in Spain which are rented out. One flat in London which is also rented out.

They ..... insisted that all properties are split 50/50. The will for the property in London is now drawn up, they are currently in the process of writing a will for the Spanish properties.

If everything was covered in one will, you and your sister would have the option of making a deed of variation to change the distribution of their assets but the two wills in separate countries makes the whole thing much more difficult.

When you do eventually inherits, would it be possible for you and your sister to agree for her to give up her inheritance under the English will and you give up yours under the Spanish one?

You would need to do everything using solicitors, especially considering your sister's condition so that no-one can claim you took advantage of her.  It would be even better if she ends up with a greater share than you as a result of doing this.

OP has said 
The London flat exceeds the value of the Spanish flats combined. 

Geriatricmum

thegreenone said:

I have read through the thread, so apologies if I've missed the answers:

Are your parents still married or would Mum buy her own house, when she moves over?

They are married but estranged. She will live in the house with dad and sister. She won't buy another property, they live in a 6 bedroom house there's plenty of room. 

Does she have another property in London, other than the flat?
No, she currently lives in a rented flat share which suits her as she then has company otherwise she would be on her own. 

If sister already owns Dad's house surely the Will will not be a 50/50 split, it will be 75/25 in your sister's favour?
My sister, mum and dad pool their money, like I said they control her finances so her wages don't go into a separate account that she then takes money out of for monthly expenses. It's difficult to determine how much of my dad's money went into the house or my sisters. Tbh that doesnt bother me and it's not really any of my business. 

If Mum, Dad and Sister are saying they will not sell the flats (even after death) you are left with half a London flat.  That's even more unfair.

Thankyou for taking the time to respond  

Geriatricmum

Spendless said:

I wonder if this might be better suited to the death/funeral part of the forum. I appreciate it's 'nearby' but there's knowledgeable people on there who don't always come to this bit who might make a practical solution not already thought of/suggested so far.

Ultimately though @Pollycat is correct. You have asked your parents to make their will a different way, they've refused. You can't force them. In the same way you could go make a will leaving everything equally to all 3 of your kids and if one of them asked you to do it differently you are not obligated to do so and there'd be nothing your child could do about that. This is exactly the same thing. .

Hi @Spendless yup I completely understand that I just think I have a right to not be expected to be my sisters financial caretaker. It would be nice if they considered other options in relation to this. If I die before my sister then she's screwed. 

By the same context if you have no wish to be financially connected to your sister after your parents deaths, do one can make you do that either. You need to forget the London flat remaining as an asset if the only way to have that is the tie to your sister you don't want, sell it, move on use the money for something else.

I think that when the time comes I'll consult a solicitor regarding this. 

You are also (IMO) jumping the gun a bit regarding this, already touched on in this thread, yes many of us do survive both our parents not all though, you or your sister could go before your remaining parent. If they were in the UK, care home fees would also be being fetched up but no idea what happens in Spain.  .

I also understand that this is not a done deal, anything can happen. But I would like to think it's not a bad thing to prepare for the likely situation that I have described.

I've only been thinking about this as my parents drew up their UK wills a few weeks ago and it just got me thinking about what my future is likely to hold once they pass and if I want that.

Regarding care home fees, I'm only taking about properties my parents have and rent out, they have any potential care home situations covered, although the plan is to live at home.