Joint inheritance moral and logistical dilemma.

Geriatricmum

elsien said:

Pollycat said:

Geriatricmum said:

You know what, the more I think about this and take in everyone's thoughts the more I realise that I'm just angry. I'm angry at my parents for putting my sister and I in this situation, because it is going to affect both of us. 

I'm looking at this in the wrong way. I can't abandon her to something that isn't entirely her own doing. My instant reaction to the Will was to try and wash my hands of her and everything by cutting her off. We're not close but I still care. 

There is no way I can care for her like they do from Scotland and I still don't want to. But she'll be alone, she won't know where to start, it's wholly unfair on her. If things happen in the 'natural order' I'll help her get her financial situation sorted in a way she understands then leave her to it and just check in. 

It's not going to be the making of a hallmark film but I'll also look to make provision for her care if I pass before her. 

I think I might look into POA for all the properties, get clued up on Spanish inheritance law and go from there.

My brain is going a million miles an hour, lots of back and forth and summersaults of emotions. Those who have read my debt free diary will know 'inner voice', they've had a few things to say too.....

Start here:
Make, register or end a lasting power of attorney: Overview - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

A lasting power of attorney (LPA) is a legal document that lets you (the ‘donor’) appoint one or more people (known as ‘attorneys’) to help you make decisions or to make decisions on your behalf.

This gives you more control over what happens to you if you have an accident or an illness and cannot make your own decisions (you ‘lack mental capacity’).

Will your parents agree to set these up?

It seems that as this thread has progressed, you have changed your stance regarding your sister.
That's good, but probably exactly what your parents want to happen.

The parents can't set these up for the sister. The LPA would be to support sister with her affairs after they have gone and she is the one who needs to willingly agree to it without any form of pressure, and to be able to understand what she is agreeing to. Again though, they  would need to check the cross boundary implications and what the Spanish equivalent might be and what covers which jurisdiction? 

Although there is some presumption that all will be well until the parents die, and there probably needs to be consideration of what will happen before then if they become too infirm to  manage the properties, or lose mental capacity themselves if this is  not already on their radar? 

It is assumed that my sister will care for my parents in their old age, they want to live out their lives at home. They have enough assets to be able to be placed into a care home etc if it gets too much, but again, this won't be discussed and it will be on me to arrange this if it gets to that point. There are no formal arrangements for me to be able to manage their properties if they become unable to...It will not be organised by them, it'll just be something I'll have to deal with when the time comes. 

kimwp

Geriatricmum said:

elsien said:

That is probably something to look into now - do they have supported accommodation in Spain in the same way that we do in the UK? How would it be accessed? Would it need the involvement of the Spanish social services as (in some circumstances) UK services do?

They do have the same services in Spain. I can look into it but it wont be something my folks will entertain right now. They are in denial as to her abilities. 

I can't find the post where you spoke about your discussions with your parents, so apologies if you already tried this, have you spoken to them about letting your sister take over looking after their household finances? You could talk to them about couples where one person has passed and the remaining person has no idea what bank accounts there are and what bills need paying and you don't want your sister to be left like that. Presumably they will become infirm at some point, so what is their expectation in that situation?

Geriatricmum

I can't even talk to my sister separately about what happens after either, I've tried to find out if she has any thoughts or wants regarding it and she kind of glazed over and refused to acknowledge what could be her reality after they pass.

If I try and talk to her about an LPA she will tell my dad and that will create issues. I doubt she would even really understand what I'm trying to do. 

Geriatricmum

kimwp said:

Geriatricmum said:

elsien said:

That is probably something to look into now - do they have supported accommodation in Spain in the same way that we do in the UK? How would it be accessed? Would it need the involvement of the Spanish social services as (in some circumstances) UK services do?

They do have the same services in Spain. I can look into it but it wont be something my folks will entertain right now. They are in denial as to her abilities. 

I can't find the post where you spoke about your discussions with your parents, so apologies if you already tried this, have you spoken to them about letting your sister take over looking after their household finances? You could talk to them about couples where one person has passed and the remaining person has no idea what bank accounts there are and what bills need paying and you don't want your sister to be left like that. Presumably they will become infirm at some point, so what is their expectation in that situation?

I have, they brush it off. They say there's no need to worry as its all direct debits and she doesn't need to do anything.

I replied to elsien above about what will happen when they are older. Perhaps she will be forced to organise bills etc when they are infirm and my father is unable to make those decisions. 

Geriatricmum

Mojisola said:

sheramber said:

Mojisola said:

Geriatricmum said:

Assets: two flats in Spain which are rented out. One flat in London which is also rented out.

They ..... insisted that all properties are split 50/50. The will for the property in London is now drawn up, they are currently in the process of writing a will for the Spanish properties.

If everything was covered in one will, you and your sister would have the option of making a deed of variation to change the distribution of their assets but the two wills in separate countries makes the whole thing much more difficult.

When you do eventually inherits, would it be possible for you and your sister to agree for her to give up her inheritance under the English will and you give up yours under the Spanish one?

You would need to do everything using solicitors, especially considering your sister's condition so that no-one can claim you took advantage of her.  It would be even better if she ends up with a greater share than you as a result of doing this.

OP has said 
The London flat exceeds the value of the Spanish flats combined. 

Won't there be cash as well which could be used to even up the inheritance?

There is but I don't know how much or what their plans are for it. 

Geriatricmum

Pollycat said:

Geriatricmum said:

Pollycat said:

Geriatricmum said:

I understand this is all conjecture and life happens etc. I'm just concerned with what my parents objectives are dividing their estate the way they are. They are not communicative and dismissive of my concerns... Which is their right but they aren't being straight up with me.

I know their assets are not mine they worked hard for them and they can do what they want with them. But with this situation it's not a straight up there's the estate here's how it's divided have a nice life, there's the added unwritten and unspoken caveat that I will be my sisters carer.

I just think I have the right to live my life after their death the way I want to, not the way they expect me to. Is that a bad thing?

I don't hate my sister, I want her to have a good life but I don't want to look after her in my retirement. If she was given the chance to be independent in her life so far I think she could do it. She has a job, friends and she's happy in Spain. I just feel like I'm taking on the fallout for their failure to let her flourish. It's incredibly frustrating.

I was just hoping there was a way to deal with this after their deaths in a way that wouldn't create conflict in their twighlight years.

Thanks again for everyones comments. 

Why do you feel they aren't being straight up with you?
You've expressed your concerns about the way they have written their wills and they have refused to change those wills to how you want them written.

You have made them aware that you "do not want to be financially tied" to your sister.

It sounds like they've been straight up with you and you've been straight up with them.

I appreciate how black and white your take in this is.

It's black and white to me because if I was in the same situation, my parents would be totally sure that I would not step up and look after my sister when they died.

I missed this one.

It would be an ideal situation if they would be realistic about it and make arrangements for her care. 

Pollycat

Geriatricmum said:

Pollycat said:

Geriatricmum said:

Pollycat said:

Geriatricmum said:

I understand this is all conjecture and life happens etc. I'm just concerned with what my parents objectives are dividing their estate the way they are. They are not communicative and dismissive of my concerns... Which is their right but they aren't being straight up with me.

I know their assets are not mine they worked hard for them and they can do what they want with them. But with this situation it's not a straight up there's the estate here's how it's divided have a nice life, there's the added unwritten and unspoken caveat that I will be my sisters carer.

I just think I have the right to live my life after their death the way I want to, not the way they expect me to. Is that a bad thing?

I don't hate my sister, I want her to have a good life but I don't want to look after her in my retirement. If she was given the chance to be independent in her life so far I think she could do it. She has a job, friends and she's happy in Spain. I just feel like I'm taking on the fallout for their failure to let her flourish. It's incredibly frustrating.

I was just hoping there was a way to deal with this after their deaths in a way that wouldn't create conflict in their twighlight years.

Thanks again for everyones comments. 

Why do you feel they aren't being straight up with you?
You've expressed your concerns about the way they have written their wills and they have refused to change those wills to how you want them written.

You have made them aware that you "do not want to be financially tied" to your sister.

It sounds like they've been straight up with you and you've been straight up with them.

I appreciate how black and white your take in this is.

It's black and white to me because if I was in the same situation, my parents would be totally sure that I would not step up and look after my sister when they died.

I missed this one.

It would be an ideal situation if they would be realistic about it and make arrangements for her care. 

I think this was covered by your reply here:

Geriatricmum said:

Thankyou @Danien. I'm still on the fence about selling the London flat but the advice regarding the spianish flats is sound and along my thoughts.

There is resentment there but I still care. I think I was wanting to push her away to sort of 'punish' my folks but in reality they'll be dead and it won't affect them only her.

I still think she is capable of managing her own life if she was given a chance to learn. 

As I said upthread, I'm sure this is exactly what your parents want and expect to happen.

It would be black and white for me because my parents would accept that if I say I'm not doing something, I won't.

elsien

You do seem to be getting stuck between a rock and a hard place.
All you can really do is gather what information you can, then decide where your line in the sand is going to be. So many things may change between now and when your parents pass away both for them and for your sister. And because we care about people it's easy to get drawn in and lose yourself amongst all the caring responsibilities.

But it's ok to say "this far and no more." And to think about it now when it's less raw and emotional than when things do change. And if you need to point your parents/your sister at Spanish social services at any point then do so with a clear conscience. You've tried to have the discussion - it's now on your parents if things go pear-shaped. 
 And from someone who has already had quite a frank conversation with a parent about not being dragged into giving up work and  being a carer, If you need/want to prioritise your partner and your children and also yourself, that is also ok. We don't always have to put other people first. 

sheramber

You say you are sure your sister will be able to manage her own affairs so what  do you envisage you would responsible for?

Geriatricmum

elsien said:

You do seem to be getting stuck between a rock and a hard place.
All you can really do is gather what information you can, then decide where your line in the sand is going to be. So many things may change between now and when your parents pass away both for them and for your sister. And because we care about people it's easy to get drawn in and lose yourself amongst all the caring responsibilities.

But it's ok to say "this far and no more." And to think about it now when it's less raw and emotional than when things do change. And if you need to point your parents/your sister at Spanish social services at any point then do so with a clear conscience. You've tried to have the discussion - it's now on your parents if things go pear-shaped. 
 And from someone who has already had quite a frank conversation with a parent about not being dragged into giving up work and  being a carer, If you need/want to prioritise your partner and your children and also yourself, that is also ok. We don't always have to put other people first. 

Thankyou @elsien I appreciate this response. It is exactly how I feel.