Joint inheritance moral and logistical dilemma.

Geriatricmum

Mands said:

Geriatricmum said:

p00hsticks said:

Geriatricmum said:

I will look up power of attorney. I take it this is something that can be applied to the flat in London so I essentially take control over her half of the property? Can I borrow against the flat without her having to be on any remortgage? 

Power of Attorney doesn't sound appropriate here - it gives you the authority to handle someone's financial or welfare needs on their behalf, but you must always act in their (not your) best interests and (unless they have lost their mental capacity) follow their wishes. It would create more ties to your sister and additional responsibilities for you and it doesn't seem as if that's what you want. 
 

It is not at all. I don't want her to squander her money and end up destitute but if she does it's not my fault as I'm not responsible for her.

I would be prepared to manage the properties and give my sister her half of any income from them but they would all have to be under my name 100% so I am not financially tied to her. I also suggested this... It didn't go down well. 

Why would your sister's assets need to be in your name? 

So she can continue living the responsibility free life she has  but I don't have to consult her everytime something needs to happen with the properties.

You mentioned asking your parents to put property in your name now to avoid UK inheritance tax. How do you think that would work? If they are still taking the rental income then surely it's a PET? 

It seems you have two aims: to keep yours and your sisters finances entirely separate AND retain the London property. Those two aims seem at odds to me. You can achieve one or the other, not both. So which is more important to you?

I dont really understand the tax system with regards to inheritance tax and their rental income just yet. I just suggested it as something we could look at. 

Mands

Geriatricmum said:

Mands said:

Geriatricmum said:

p00hsticks said:

Geriatricmum said:

I will look up power of attorney. I take it this is something that can be applied to the flat in London so I essentially take control over her half of the property? Can I borrow against the flat without her having to be on any remortgage? 

Power of Attorney doesn't sound appropriate here - it gives you the authority to handle someone's financial or welfare needs on their behalf, but you must always act in their (not your) best interests and (unless they have lost their mental capacity) follow their wishes. It would create more ties to your sister and additional responsibilities for you and it doesn't seem as if that's what you want. 
 

It is not at all. I don't want her to squander her money and end up destitute but if she does it's not my fault as I'm not responsible for her.

I would be prepared to manage the properties and give my sister her half of any income from them but they would all have to be under my name 100% so I am not financially tied to her. I also suggested this... It didn't go down well. 

Why would your sister's assets need to be in your name? 

You mentioned asking your parents to put property in your name now to avoid UK inheritance tax. How do you think that would work? If they are still taking the rental income then surely it's a PET? 

It seems you have two aims: to keep yours and your sisters finances entirely separate AND retain the London property. Those two aims seem at odds to me. You can achieve one or the other, not both. So which is more important to you?

I want the London property to be solely in my name and for the Spanish properties to be solely in my sisters name. This way we are not tied financially and can live our lives independently once my parents are gone. 

Yes, I understand that's what you *want*. But these are your parents assets to give away as they see fit. And you've asked them for this split, and they've said no.

So, as it stands, you and your sisters will jointly inherit all three properties. Unless your sister agrees to take the Spanish properties and you have the London one (and why would she? What is her incentive?) then you have an issue. Either you work with her or you sell everything and have cash to invest.

I would be using this time to decide which option was preferable. 

Pollycat

Keep_pedalling said:

Pollycat said:

There is no inheritance until someone dies.
Your parents are both alive.
You really have no right - either morally or legally imho - to ask your parents to do anything with their money and assets in their will.
They appear to have written their wills to dispose of assets as they wish.

It's possible (and it has happened) that if one of your parents die, the living one may meet someone else and totally change their will.
Don't count your chickens....

However, it's clear that they have discussed the contents of their wills with you.
Did you voice your disinclination to be financially associated with your sister at that time?

That a is little unfair, I think the OP is rightfully concerned that under the current will he (and his sister) could end up with a major financial mess and major sibling bust up. Leaving your estate so that both siblings end up jointly owning property in two different countries is asking for conflict and potentially major tax implications. 

A will that stipulates that the properties should be sold and the proceeds after tax be distributed equally would be better or if the values are roughly equal UK property to UK based sibling, Spanish properties to Spanish based sibling.

We have seen a lot of threads here where siblings are battling over property (some wanting to keep the others wanting to sell) . I think the parents need professional advice from both the UK and Spain. 

Unfair or not - it is up to the OP's parents to leave their money and assets as they wish.
The OP could suggest that her parents take proper advice in both countries but it is really not her call to request her parents to leave assets in a way that suits her.
If she hasn't been crystal clear to her parents - and possibly her sister too - that she will not take over responsibility for her sister, she needs to do that right now.
But I do think proper legal advice should be taken.

Geriatricmum

My parents and sister know I will not be my sisters baby sitter once they are gone. They said I won't need to be as she can look after herself (denial) 

I suspect they are splitting the properties 50/50 to force me to take control of the properties as they know my sister is not capable and as a result my sister is set up for life while I do all the work managing the properties so they aren't stolen by some unscrupulous family member or messed up by my sister someway.

I cannot work with my sister.

elsien

Sarahspangles said:

What are the arrangementse in Spain for someone who lacks capacity, if there is nobody in the family able/willing to act for them? Is there a scenario where you hand your sister’s care to whatever that authority is? Even if you got on with your sister, you’re in another country with a family of your own.

No one has said that the sister lacks capacity to manage her money. Just that her parents are happy to do everything for her and she is happy with the status quo. It doesn’t mean she couldn’t. It means she doesn’t want to/hasn’t had to.

We need to be careful not to mix up learning difficulty for example dyslexia) and learning disability. Neither of those labels automatically mean that someone likes capacity around their finances. 

To be clear, when I referenced power-of-attorney earlier, I didn’t mean a lasting power of attorney, I meant a general power-of-attorney. however, that doesn’t fit with not wanting to consult with your sister. There isn’t going to be a mechanism for taking over, giving her the income and having nothing else to do with her.

theoretica

I see two options - probably the cleanest is to sell the properties.  You can then buy another rental property with your share if that is what you choose to do.  You sister could do the same, or arrange for an annuity or something. 

Alternatively, after/during inheritance you could agree to exchange half properties with your sister - buy her half of the London one with your halves of the Spanish ones, so long as the values are equal, or balance things as necessary. 

Do you know who your parents are appointing as executors?

LinLui

Geriatricmum said:

My parents and sister know I will not be my sisters baby sitter once they are gone. They said I won't need to be as she can look after herself (denial) 

I suspect they are splitting the properties 50/50 to force me to take control of the properties as they know my sister is not capable and as a result my sister is set up for life while I do all the work managing the properties so they aren't stolen by some unscrupulous family member or messed up by my sister someway.

I cannot work with my sister.

I am confused as to how they can be both in denial saying that she can look after herself as well as in denial saying that she cannot look after herself. However there really is a simple solution. Tell your parents that you want nothing from any estate that they have to leave. Make it clear that unless they leave everything to your sister, you will gift her anything that they leave to you. They then have the choice of leaving her to it, or appointing someone to manage her affairs / a trust in her benefit. You will then have no reason nor need to ever have anything to do with her again, and whether the properties are appropriately managed or stolen by an unscrupulous family member is none of your business. 

Geriatricmum

theoretica said:

I see two options - probably the cleanest is to sell the properties.  You can then buy another rental property with your share if that is what you choose to do.  You sister could do the same, or arrange for an annuity or something. 

Alternatively, after/during inheritance you could agree to exchange half properties with your sister - buy her half of the London one with your halves of the Spanish ones, so long as the values are equal, or balance things as necessary. 

Do you know who your parents are appointing as executors?

I am the executor for the UK Will. I don't know what they have planned for the Spanish will. 

elsien

What does Spanish law say about a) Having to include children in wills and b)variation of a will.
I don’t know what the difference is between Spanish and English legislation in that respect. 

Geriatricmum

elsien said:

Sarahspangles said:

What are the arrangementse in Spain for someone who lacks capacity, if there is nobody in the family able/willing to act for them? Is there a scenario where you hand your sister’s care to whatever that authority is? Even if you got on with your sister, you’re in another country with a family of your own.

No one has said that the sister lacks capacity to manage her money. Just that her parents are happy to do everything for her and she is happy with the status quo. It doesn’t mean she couldn’t. It means she doesn’t want to/hasn’t had to.

exactly this. She has no insentive to think for herself. This is part of the problem. 

We need to be careful not to mix up learning difficulty for example dyslexia) and learning disability. Neither of those labels automatically mean that someone likes capacity around their finances. 

I don't exactly know what kind of learning difficulty she has, she went to a special needs school up until high school then had a support teacher.

She's not got the best social skills and is quite selfish and entitled. But I think this is as a result of my parents babying her. 

To be clear, when I referenced power-of-attorney earlier, I didn’t mean a lasting power of attorney, I meant a general power-of-attorney. however, that doesn’t fit with not wanting to consult with your sister. There isn’t going to be a mechanism for taking over, giving her the income and having nothing else to do with her.

 

I might look into power of attorney anyway as an option. Thankyou.