Group thread for Heathrow and Gatwick drop off PCNs

LDast

A PCN from APCOA for an alleged breach of contract by the driver on land that is under airport bylaws, can never "satisfy" PoFA because PoFA is irrelevant.

Only the unknown driver is liable. It is the known keeper that receives the PCN. As long as the known keeper doesn't blab the unknown drivers identity to APCOA, thereby making the driver known, then there is nothing that APCOA can do about it.

There is no other way that APCOA can identify the driver. If they don't know the drivers identity, how do you think they can pursue the driver for the alleged debt? They can't.

Stop trying to overthink this and tell APCOA to go and chase the unknown driver.

mi5tery

Hello, 

Quick one, I am abroad and paid the drop off charge as soon as I remembered - which was 00:57 (UK time which I didn't realise at the time) so just past the deadline of midnight the day after. I'm expecting the PCN to come through but wanted to check if the advice in this thread still applies as I paid the fee?

Thanks in advance and apologies if I posted this in the wrong place.

Subbu84

Hello all,

Need a bit of advice on appealing the PCN I received from APCOA Parking for a drop-off at Heathrow T5, below are the exact words from the PCN letter

“Notice is hereby given to the registered keeper of vehicle registration mark XXNNXXX

for the contravention of Use of Drop off Zone without making a valid payment

at Heathrow Terminal Dropoff T3

on 30 July 2024  at 13:15

The contravention if a BREACH OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE of the facility. Signs are clearly displayed throughout the area showing terms and conditions.“

I am planning to appeal as mentioned on the page1  of this thread, are the points still relevant and fine, please advise

My Appeal below:-

I appeal as keeper. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so.

1.       You are unable to transfer liability to the keeper pursuant to Schedule 4 to the the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ('POFA') because airport drop off zones are not ‘relevant land’ as defined in POFA.

2. Even if (which is not the case) the land in question is relevant land your notice does not conform to the requirements set out in POFA paragraphs 9(2)(e) and (f).

 Furthermore, as keeper I am entitled to all the defences available to the driver including (without limitation) the following:

3. The parking charge is not notified until after the contract is entered into and under the principles set out by the Court of Appeal in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking, does not form part of the contract between the driver and APCOA;

4. The signage is not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice;

Any one of the above reasons is alone sufficient to require cancellation of the PCN

 Therefore I require you to cancel the PCN and expunge my personal data from your records.

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have deleted the point  5 as I quite sure we stayed more than 5 mins, I always pay immediately but this time we forgot and landed up with a PCN, could someone kindly eyeball and advise.

Coupon-mad

No - just use the template in this thread.

@mi5tery too

Subbu84

Coupon-mad said:

No - just use the template in this thread.

@mi5tery too

@c@Coupon-mad- I did not understand, used the template but only deleted point 5. Is that what you referred, apologies if misunderstood

LDast

Keep it simple. Just send this as it works every time:

I am the registered keeper. APCOA cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Heathrow Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Heathrow Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Byelaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA's own profit (as opposed to a byelaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NTK can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Subbu84

LDast said:

Keep it simple. Just send this as it works every time:

I am the registered keeper. APCOA cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Heathrow Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Heathrow Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Byelaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA's own profit (as opposed to a byelaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NTK can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

add this to the existing points you mean?

Coupon-mad

No.

That is all you need.  That's the one I meant. 

Thurrafork

Thanks for the advice here folks!
Just received the standard 'cancellation of PCN' letter after appealing with the text in the first post.
Still works.
Thank you!

javixeneize

HI

i was unable to reach the drop off area today in Heathrow, poor indications always took me to the Sofitel hotel area.

i parked in the no parking zone there, as I had no other option, my friends were about to miss the flight 

would this appeal be valid for a penalty related to that? This seems to be for the drop off area only (which by the way, I paid in advance but never used as I didn’t reach the drop off area)

thanks