Group thread for Heathrow and Gatwick drop off PCNs

calpol_junkie

Hi Guys,

I'm going to tack onto this thread as I'm sure there's enough threads relating to airport PCNs.

So I was a naughty boy and I stopped my car in a no-no zone at the airport, and doing some research into the legalities of this led me here (I stopped the car in a lay-by for about 45 seconds and was caught on ANPR)

So the template appeal letters seems to all argue POPA being unenforceable due to:

1. The 'relevant land' argument as its under statutory control (airport bylaws)
2. The lack of adequate signage
3. The PCN itself not conforming to BPA standards/not having the required wordage of the BPA CoC

The issue with my particular case is that:

1. There is a big sign saying 'private road' upon entry to the airport property (I assume to quash any 'relevant land' arguments)
2. There is a giant sign saying 'no stopping' and the exact amount in £ they will sting you for if you do stop
3. My PCN basically had all the right wording including the 'if you don't surrender the name of the driver we can pursue the keeper etc etc'

I initially thought I might be able argue grace periods, but after reading through the BPA code of conduct, it seems to be pretty black and white regarding stopping, basically if you stop for anything other than a real emergency, you get a ticket. No grace period, you stop, you get ticket. The rules for parking seem to have way more loopholes than stopping.

I fear if I send the template appeal letter they'll just send one back saying all the points I'm arguing are basically null due to the reasons I've stated.

Am I missing anything which can help my case and maybe defeat the ticket?

calpol_junkie

POPA

POFA* also I forgot to mention this is an APCOA ticket

Le_Kirk

calpol_junkie said:

I'm going to tack onto this thread as I'm sure there's enough threads relating to airport PCNs.

Am I missing anything which can help my case and maybe defeat the ticket?

Was this a Heathrow or Gatwick drop-off issue or a different UK airport where the PCN is for stopping?  Different issue and you will find plenty of "stopping on airport land" threads.

Grizebeck

Send this (honestly)

Dear Sir,
This an appeal by the keeper, dont bother asking for driver details
I know its not relevant land, you know its not relevant land POPLA know its not relevant land so obvs no keeper liability 
Cancel as you will lose at POPLA (you always do on relevant land issues)

Thanks

PS ive seen all your replies before about the BPA allowing pcns to be issued Blah blah blah

Coupon-mad

My PCN basically had all the right wording including the 'if you don't surrender the name of the driver we can pursue the keeper etc etc'

I respectfully suggest you are mistaken. Your APCOA PCN did not say that.

I have never, in more than 15 years doing this stuff, seen an APCOA POFA-compliant NTK.

calpol_junkie

Coupon-mad said:

My PCN basically had all the right wording including the 'if you don't surrender the name of the driver we can pursue the keeper etc etc'

I respectfully suggest you are mistaken. Your APCOA PCN did not say that.

I have never, in more than 15 years doing this stuff, seen an APCOA POFA-compliant NTK.

The exact wording on it is "..if you do not provide their details you will still be liable for the charge outline in this notice..."

I assume they deliberately include this line to satisfy the POFA paragraph that concerns what information they need to write in the PCN for it to be compliant (I think it was paragraph 9)

Grizebeck

use what ive given you
thats it really

calpol_junkie

Grizebeck said:

Send this (honestly)

Dear Sir,
This an appeal by the keeper, dont bother asking for driver details
I know its not relevant land, you know its not relevant land POPLA know its not relevant land so obvs no keeper liability 
Cancel as you will lose at POPLA (you always do on relevant land issues)

Thanks

PS ive seen all your replies before about the BPA allowing pcns to be issued Blah blah blah

Am right in saying that airports (due to bylaw) can only properly issue fines like the same way like the local council would issue a PCN? By this I mean the penalty money is paid into the 'system' rather than used a direct revenue stream for a private company?

Grizebeck

calpol_junkie said:

Grizebeck said:

Send this (honestly)

Dear Sir,
This an appeal by the keeper, dont bother asking for driver details
I know its not relevant land, you know its not relevant land POPLA know its not relevant land so obvs no keeper liability 
Cancel as you will lose at POPLA (you always do on relevant land issues)

Thanks

PS ive seen all your replies before about the BPA allowing pcns to be issued Blah blah blah

Am right in saying that airports (due to bylaw) can only properly issue fines like the same way like the local council would issue a PCN? By this I mean the penalty money is paid into the 'system' rather than used a direct revenue stream for a private company?

no
but that isn't relevant to this case
let us know when your ticket is cancelled 

KeithP

calpol_junkie said:
The exact wording on it is "..if you do not provide their details you will still be liable for the charge outline in this notice..."

I assume they deliberately include this line to satisfy the POFA paragraph that concerns what information they need to write in the PCN for it to be compliant (I think it was paragraph 9)

But that line doesn't 'satisfy POFA'.

As CM said... it is not POFA compliant.

And as byelaws apply, it is not relevant land either.