British Gas still using intimidatory tactics for smart meter appointments

Spoonie_Turtle

Zandoni said:

The thing that really annoys me with smart meters is that they are replacing perfectly good dumb meters before they have finished there useful life. We are all paying for this and I doubt it will ever be cost effective.

Even more annoying is that when smart gas meter batteries run out, they replace the whole meter and not just the battery …

prowla

MattMattMattUK said:

prowla said:

TheElectricCow said:

prowla said:

TheElectricCow said:

MWT said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Somniac said:

Hi all

I recently got a notification (unsolicited) for a smart meter installation (which I don't want). They had made an appointment for installation with a warning I would be charged £30 if I wasn't in or didnt cancel soon enough. After some struggle,I found the appointment on the gas account not on the electric account. I have now cancelled the appointment. This seems to me to be intimidatory.

Why would it be intimidating? 

I don't usually agree with much of the resistance to smart meter installs, but telling me there is an appointment that I didn't ask for or agree to and threatening a penalty if I'm not in would annoy me as well, and yes, the £30 charge does feel like it is deigned to force customers to accept the appointment under threat of a 'fine' ...

I would be inclined to suggest this warrants a complaint.

Annoying? Absolutely 
Complaint worthy? Probably 
Intimidating? Not impossible to argue, but that’s pushing it.

Threatening to "fine" someone seems pretty intimidating to me.

Can't say it does to me, at least not in this context. I acknowledge that other people may read it differently, but to me all it seems like is a simple explanation of their terms. There is a charge for missed appointments - I don't personally see any extra emotion or frightening messaging in that.

Now, whether those terms are right or wrong, or even reasonably enforceable, is a different matter entirely.

I've made you an appointment for something you don't want and didn't agree to; if you don't cancel it in accordance with the terms I've set (which you also didn't agree to) then I'll fine you £30.

The terms have been part of the supply agreements for some time now. 

Oh really - where?

The BG T&Cs say you may be charged if:

"you miss an agreed appointment"

Note the word "agreed" there...

jackieblack

gbhxu said:

jackieblack said:

gbhxu said:

OFGEM state that you don't have to have a smart meter installed unless you don't want one.

🤔 Huh? 🤔🤷🏻‍♀️

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper.

Yes, but my response was to 
“OFGEM state that you don't have to have a smart meter installed unless you don't want one.”

which means the exact opposite… 🤷🏻‍♀️

matt_drummer

Somniac said:

If and when BG offer a financial incentive such as lower tariffs with the installation of a smart gas meter, I shall be happy to reconsider.However, they have not done so. Also it is a puzzle to me, why they are not made manditory by the Government.

The government have made it mandatory that when your meter is changed it must be replaced by a smart meter unless there is a good reason not to.

When your gas meter is eventually changed, you will have no choice over what meter you get, why should you, it's their meter, not yours.

They don't have to offer you an incentive, you do understand that the meter doesn't belong to you, don't you?

littlemoney

About 5 years ago I had a phone call from my energy provider stating that it was a legal requirement to have a smart meter fitted. I responded to say they have a legal requirement to inform me about smart meters but I didn't have to have one.

Never heard any more after that conversation. I think it was a time when the government had given energy provider targets for meter installations. Presumably they were missing their target.

Mstty

littlemoney said:

About 5 years ago I had a phone call from my energy provider stating that it was a legal requirement to have a smart meter fitted. I responded to say they have a legal requirement to inform me about smart meters but I didn't have to have one.

Never heard any more after that conversation. I think it was a time when the government had given energy provider targets for meter installations. Presumably they were missing their target.

With a username like littemoney perhaps a smart meter could have cut your energy costs by a third if you had accepted the smart meter and got onboard with time of use tariffs.

The reluctance of people getting smart meters does still baffle me but always good to point out savings that you could have been receiving and getting now as this is a money saving board. 

Marvel1

Mstty said:

littlemoney said:

About 5 years ago I had a phone call from my energy provider stating that it was a legal requirement to have a smart meter fitted. I responded to say they have a legal requirement to inform me about smart meters but I didn't have to have one.

Never heard any more after that conversation. I think it was a time when the government had given energy provider targets for meter installations. Presumably they were missing their target.

With a username like littemoney perhaps a smart meter could have cut your energy costs by a third if you had accepted the smart meter and got onboard with time of use tariffs.

The reluctance of people getting smart meters does still baffle me but always good to point out savings that you could have been receiving and getting now as this is a money saving board. 

Who are the providers offering this, as I'm looking into getting one.

Info, in case needed

My annual electric from 08-05-22 to now = 1490 kWh
My annual gas from 08-05-22 to now = 1999 kWh

Current rate for electric: 32.110p per kWh
Current rate for gas: 10.467p per kWh

mmmmikey

Octopus have various TOU tariffs for electricity. I have just switched to them from EDF, onto their Agile tariff. A ridiculously simple process as I already have a smart meter. I signed up online early morning on Thursday 4th May and as of today Sunday 7th May I am now an Octopus customer on their Agile tariff. Prices vary but in my case I expect to average about 20p(ish)/kWh for electricity Vs 30p(ish)/kWh on a SVR tariff.

agentcain

[Deleted User] said:

agentcain said:

Smart meters only save money in cases where the user is unwilling or inexperienced to provide the same savings themselves, by switching off devices, not wasting energy, sending readings etc. In no way meters actually do something to actively provide savings (e.g. the switching of devices when not in use, the prioritization of expensive chores in times of low cost etc). If anything, the net sum points to energy loss, energy for the meter to operate, be created and transferred to the user. 

You keep pedalling the same myths as if there are written in stone. The facts show that consumers with smart meters CAN and DO save on their energy bills.

Smart meters enable consumers to make changes to their energy usage pattern in the knowledge that they will make considerable savings on their energy costs. I have been able to avail myself of smart tariffs for 4 years. My gas tariff has just been renewed for a further year at a capped price of 6p/kWh. Today the gas price is 4.4p/kWh. I got through the whole of last Winter paying just 7.5p/kWh for electricity. Today, I am on Octopus Flux  which over the past 28 days has generated an income (electricity import - electricity export) of £64.14.

My daughter is on Octopus Agile. Here are her prices for today. Agile, like all smart meter tariffs, is saving her money. She couldn’t get on to Agile without a smart meter.

You are arguing for the sake of arguing and in regards to "pedalling the same myths" you are talking nonsense.
There is NOTHING special about a "smart meter" that saves you money. If we were talking about a whole house driven electrical automation, with IOT devices switching on and off according to cost on an agile tariff, then it would be a proper smart meter. That is not a myth, that is a fact. The illusion of benefit is due to the following

The only reason you see benefit with smart meters and special tariffs is because these tariffs have been artificially made tempting to give incentives for smart meter installation. Yes, smart meters benefit the network, the generators and suppliers and I'm pretty sure someone in the government has a mate in those manufacturing and supply lines to actually procure meters. The end consumer though has zero financial benefit if they were already able to send readings and limit energy waste. For those end consumers who enjoy however the IHD, not having to send readings or are unwilling or unable to switch certain appliances off when its expensive to run them, then they yes indeed benefit from a smart meter. But for the sake of those, I would argue that this should be an opt in situation, with the cost of buying and fitting the meter going to the consumer who wants it, rather than everyone via increased charges.

What the smart meter is doing for you in the case of a flexible tariff is what the supplier is supposed to be doing. The supplier's business model is supposed to be bringing in consumers together, predicting their usage and guarantying energy purchase in advance, i.e. hedging. If every consumer consumes according to a fluctuating rate, then there's no need for a supplier, is there? We just let the state form a billing department for the sole purpose of dealing with the bureaucracy of issuing bills and handling money transfers. 

matt_drummer

agentcain said:

You are arguing for the sake of arguing and in regards to "pedalling the same myths" you are talking nonsense.
There is NOTHING special about a "smart meter" that saves you money. If we were talking about a whole house driven electrical automation, with IOT devices switching on and off according to cost on an agile tariff, then it would be a proper smart meter. That is not a myth, that is a fact. The illusion of benefit is due to the following

The only reason you see benefit with smart meters and special tariffs is because these tariffs have been artificially made tempting to give incentives for smart meter installation. Yes, smart meters benefit the network, the generators and suppliers and I'm pretty sure someone in the government has a mate in those manufacturing and supply lines to actually procure meters. The end consumer though has zero financial benefit if they were already able to send readings and limit energy waste. For those end consumers who enjoy however the IHD, not having to send readings or are unwilling or unable to switch certain appliances off when its expensive to run them, then they yes indeed benefit from a smart meter. But for the sake of those, I would argue that this should be an opt in situation, with the cost of buying and fitting the meter going to the consumer who wants it, rather than everyone via increased charges.

What the smart meter is doing for you in the case of a flexible tariff is what the supplier is supposed to be doing. The supplier's business model is supposed to be bringing in consumers together, predicting their usage and guarantying energy purchase in advance, i.e. hedging. If every consumer consumes according to a fluctuating rate, then there's no need for a supplier, is there? We just let the state form a billing department for the sole purpose of dealing with the bureaucracy of issuing bills and handling money transfers. 

My smart meter is special enough that I run my house, my heating and our hot tub for a cost of £0 per year.

Obviously, I have solar panels and batteries that I have had to pay for, but without a smart meter it wouldn't be possible to do what I have done.

Then there were the energy savings sessions, I made a fair amount from those, some people made a substantial amount over the winter. Only possible with a smart meter.

Without the smart meter, I would be paying £thousands.

Why would smart meters need to be incentivised? They cost you nothing directly and if you don't want to avail yourself of any cheaper tariffs you don't have to.

You lose nothing by having smart meters and only potentially gain. There are absolutely no downsides to smart meters, they just measure energy consumption in more detail than older meters, there is nothing else that they do.

Finally, they are not our meters, the suppliers have a legal obligation to fit smart meters when meters are changed. They are not our meters and there isn't a choice.

You can decline an offer to have smart meters fitted if your meters don't need changing, but as soon as they do, you have to have smart meters fitted unless there is a good reason not to.