British Gas still using intimidatory tactics for smart meter appointments

matt_drummer

agentcain said:

What the smart meter is doing for you in the case of a flexible tariff is what the supplier is supposed to be doing. The supplier's business model is supposed to be bringing in consumers together, predicting their usage and guarantying energy purchase in advance, i.e. hedging. If every consumer consumes according to a fluctuating rate, then there's no need for a supplier, is there? We just let the state form a billing department for the sole purpose of dealing with the bureaucracy of issuing bills and handling money transfers. 

That is exactly what smart meters enable.

In order to do as you suggest, they need to know how much you use and when.

It is exactly the point of them.

How would an energy supplier operate a flexible tariff, as you are advocating, without the data to make it work?

Energy supply and demand is not constant. It costs money to scale back generation when demand is low, by offering the excess generation to customers at these times they can reduce the cost to the customers that can make use of it.

They continue generating and reduce costs, it benefits all of us.

Another benefit is that energy consumed by people like me in low demand times makes more available at peak times, it eases the burden on the grid and reduces the chances of power cuts. If I didn't buy my electricity during the winter at night and store it, I would have to buy at peak times.

But, in order to do this, they need to know how much I use and when.

It's all pretty basic and really rather obvious.

matt_drummer

agentcain said:

You are arguing for the sake of arguing and in regards to "pedalling the same myths" you are talking nonsense.

The only reason you see benefit with smart meters and special tariffs is because these tariffs have been artificially made tempting to give incentives for smart meter installation. Yes, smart meters benefit the network, the generators and suppliers and I'm pretty sure someone in the government has a mate in those manufacturing and supply lines to actually procure meters. The end consumer though has zero financial benefit if they were already able to send readings and limit energy waste. For those end consumers who enjoy however the IHD, not having to send readings or are unwilling or unable to switch certain appliances off when its expensive to run them, then they yes indeed benefit from a smart meter. But for the sake of those, I would argue that this should be an opt in situation, with the cost of buying and fitting the meter going to the consumer who wants it, rather than everyone via increased charges.

Of all the excellent posters on here, @[Deleted User] is the least likely to talk nonsense, especially about smart meters!

We already have energy meters, the `mate' of somebody in government was already making energy meters and had been for decades, you argument does not make sense.

I don't know, but I would imagine that a smart meter is cheaper to produce than older analogue type meters.

And, like many things, old style analogue meters are no longer produced or supported, the world has moved on. We don't have VHS recorders produced anymore, they are the past, it's done with.

spot1034

These mysterious 'mates' of the government seem to be happy to change their allegiance to support a new regime as soon as one comes along. I can remember it happening in 2010, and I expect we will see it again if there is a change at the general election next year.

casjen

Smart meters do not save you money. They are just a bit of kit that transmits your readings. The myth of saving is just that.. a myth...  Its people who saves them selves money and once the novelty has worn off  of staring at the kettle I would hazard a guess that the vast majority go back to using the same as before.... 

Brie

matt_drummer said:

You know exactly where your smart meters are, you've just told us!

Your gas meter is in a box outside and your electricity meter is at the back of a crowded cupboard.

What makes you think you don't know where they are?

Do I? 

When we moved in to the property and I set up our account I was told we didn't have smart meters and so would need to provide readings.  Fine.  After I while I spotted a good deal with someone else and switched.  And was told that as I didn't have smart meters I would have to provide readings.  Fine.  Two years later, another deal, another switch.  And suddenly I apparently had meters that were talking to the provider. Neat.  Nothing had been installed in the meantime so was it just that the previous 2 companies unable to connect?  I guess that must be it. 

So maybe I do know where my smart meters are.  But what do they tell me.  Nothing useful.  There are simply numbers that occasionally flip forward to indicate that I am using electricity or gas.  Nothing to tell me how much this costs me so short of me checking the meters every hour on the hour and logging it all on a spreadsheet with my tariffs I am none the wiser.

And if they did tell me my use at X time was ZZ costing £YY/minute how helpful is that.  Not much.  I'm back to the thing that if I want to save electricity I need to be in the habit of turning off lights when I leave a room.  And to save gas I need to turn the boiler down or off.  Which has nothing to do with the meter itself.  So having a smart meter isn't saving me money.  Being sensible is.

Mstty

casjen said:

Smart meters do not save you money. They are just a bit of kit that transmits your readings. The myth of saving is just that.. a myth...  Its people who saves them selves money and once the novelty has worn off  of staring at the kettle I would hazard a guess that the vast majority go back to using the same as before.... 

So time of use tariffs and beta tariff like tracker and EV tariffs don't save you money?

It's a myth that they need a smart meter and half hour reads and save people up to a third of the cost of the current price cap.

So that's just just a big lie is it?

Brie

@Mstty
What percentage of households are on time of use tariffs?  And how much do they save as a result?

I've yet to see one available on any comparison sites so have never looked to get one and frankly don't know how much use they'd be for us.  If prices are lower during the night great.  But we aren't using much of anything then.  The fridge will be on but the TV off same as normal.  The heating is on a timer which we might tweak but not significantly as we don't have heat on during the night except in absolute extreme cold.  

matt_drummer

Brie said:

matt_drummer said:

You know exactly where your smart meters are, you've just told us!

Your gas meter is in a box outside and your electricity meter is at the back of a crowded cupboard.

What makes you think you don't know where they are?

Do I? 

When we moved in to the property and I set up our account I was told we didn't have smart meters and so would need to provide readings.  Fine.  After I while I spotted a good deal with someone else and switched.  And was told that as I didn't have smart meters I would have to provide readings.  Fine.  Two years later, another deal, another switch.  And suddenly I apparently had meters that were talking to the provider. Neat.  Nothing had been installed in the meantime so was it just that the previous 2 companies unable to connect?  I guess that must be it. 

So maybe I do know where my smart meters are.  But what do they tell me.  Nothing useful.  There are simply numbers that occasionally flip forward to indicate that I am using electricity or gas.  Nothing to tell me how much this costs me so short of me checking the meters every hour on the hour and logging it all on a spreadsheet with my tariffs I am none the wiser.

And if they did tell me my use at X time was ZZ costing £YY/minute how helpful is that.  Not much.  I'm back to the thing that if I want to save electricity I need to be in the habit of turning off lights when I leave a room.  And to save gas I need to turn the boiler down or off.  Which has nothing to do with the meter itself.  So having a smart meter isn't saving me money.  Being sensible is.

Yes, you do know where they are, you told us.

Your smart gas meter is in a locked box outside and your smart electricity meter is at the back of a crowded cupboard.

And you are correct, they are just meters that record your energy usage, nobody has ever pretended that they are anything else, it's what they open up to you that saves you money.

But if you do nothing, they cost nothing either.

Why don't you plug in your in home display so you can see what is going on, or log into your energy account, or download an app that can give you this information?

If you can see what you are using at any time, as an example, you might notice that the old fridge in the garage is costing you a fortune or that your washing machine is no longer as efficient as you thought.

Assuming that you are on an SVT, you could do some research and find yourself a tariff that offered lower rates that suit your lifestyle. Without smart meters you couldn't do that, as you have them, you can if you want to. That's how they can save you money.

You have already indicated that you switch suppliers when you spotted a good deal. Haven't you spotted the good deals available to you now?

If smart meters are installed and the customer does nothing, then of course they won't save any money.


But as you clearly demonstrate, smart meters are just energy meters, and if you choose not to take advantage of any of the benefits available, then you don't even know you have them.

If you don't even notice that you have them, neither would anybody else, therefore, what are all the objections about?

matt_drummer

Brie said:

@Mstty
What percentage of households are on time of use tariffs?  And how much do they save as a result?

I've yet to see one available on any comparison sites so have never looked to get one and frankly don't know how much use they'd be for us.  If prices are lower during the night great.  But we aren't using much of anything then.  The fridge will be on but the TV off same as normal.  The heating is on a timer which we might tweak but not significantly as we don't have heat on during the night except in absolute extreme cold.  

Maybe there's an Octopus tariff that would suit you?

Something like Tracker or Agile, it is based on spot prices, people are saving loads on it.

Rather than look at comparison sites, why not look on the supplier's sites to see what is available?

And on here, there's loads of information here from people on these types of tariffs.

And this is where the smart meters are useful, you will be able to look at your data and see how much you use and when you use it. That will help you find a tariff to suit you and save you money.

matt_drummer

Dolor said:

agentcain said:

Smart meters enable consumers to make changes to their energy usage pattern in the knowledge that they will make considerable savings on their energy costs. I have been able to avail myself of smart tariffs for 4 years. My gas tariff has just been renewed for a further year at a capped price of 6p/kWh. Today the gas price is 4.4p/kWh. I got through the whole of last Winter paying just 7.5p/kWh for electricity. Today, I am on Octopus Flux  which over the past 28 days has generated an income (electricity import - electricity export) of £64.14.

My daughter is on Octopus Agile. Here are her prices for today. Agile, like all smart meter tariffs, is saving her money. She couldn’t get on to Agile without a smart meter.

@Brie

Here look!

It's from this thread.