British Gas still using intimidatory tactics for smart meter appointments

Brie

To those that think the message as originally posted is acceptable I say twaddle. 

OK so a meter is going to be installed - not a problem.  But at this date and with an actual time specified?  And if you don't notify us at least 24 hours a head of time you get fined??  Nope.  First off 24 hours from when?  Presumable by at least 8 am the day before the appointment.  And presumably the OP received this message by what?  A text that was presumed to be spam and so deleted.  Otherwise just a notice on the actual account?  Less than 10 days before the date of the install.  So what if the OP was on holiday, in hospital, had lost broadband?  My OH probably doesn't even know who our provider is let alone how to log on so would never know about any of this if I wasn't aware.  So potentially someone could show up at the house to do the install and he could be out or suspicious of a strange person wanting access.  "Well Bud if you didn't cancel by at least yesterday morning at 8 am (before our customer service lines are open) then not much I can do but tell the company to charge you £30.  Oh you have an urgent doctor's appointment?  Tough!"  Yup - intimidating.   But if you add a line to say "we may charge a fee unless you have a good reason for not notifying us in advance" then I would be fine with it.

And the other twaddle is about how smart meters can save everyone money.  Nope.

They might save some people money.  Those who are on a variable rate of some sort so the meter ensures they are charged less at some times of day. (That's not us) And those who have a way to monitoring their use and seeing how much they are using this hour at this rate. (again not us)  We do have smart meters apparently.  I've no idea where they are, the company can't/won't tell me (but I think it's that they don't know) and the only way I can actually look at the meter itself to see if it's ticking along is to go outside (in the rain?) unlock a box and see if we're using gas.  For electric I need to have a torch to see the meter which is in a box at the back of a crowded cupboard.  So no - I don't how much we are using this second.  Or an hour ago.  So can't judge if what I'm doing might save me money or not - beyond thinking "if I turn off the lights the electric use goes down" and that has nothing to do with having a smart meter.

matt_drummer

Brie said:

To those that think the message as originally posted is acceptable I say twaddle. 

OK so a meter is going to be installed - not a problem.  But at this date and with an actual time specified?  And if you don't notify us at least 24 hours a head of time you get fined??  Nope.  First off 24 hours from when?  Presumable by at least 8 am the day before the appointment.  And presumably the OP received this message by what?  A text that was presumed to be spam and so deleted.  Otherwise just a notice on the actual account?  Less than 10 days before the date of the install.  So what if the OP was on holiday, in hospital, had lost broadband?  My OH probably doesn't even know who our provider is let alone how to log on so would never know about any of this if I wasn't aware.  So potentially someone could show up at the house to do the install and he could be out or suspicious of a strange person wanting access.  "Well Bud if you didn't cancel by at least yesterday morning at 8 am (before our customer service lines are open) then not much I can do but tell the company to charge you £30.  Oh you have an urgent doctor's appointment?  Tough!"  Yup - intimidating.   But if you add a line to say "we may charge a fee unless you have a good reason for not notifying us in advance" then I would be fine with it.

And the other twaddle is about how smart meters can save everyone money.  Nope.

They might save some people money.  Those who are on a variable rate of some sort so the meter ensures they are charged less at some times of day. (That's not us) And those who have a way to monitoring their use and seeing how much they are using this hour at this rate. (again not us)  We do have smart meters apparently.  I've no idea where they are, the company can't/won't tell me (but I think it's that they don't know) and the only way I can actually look at the meter itself to see if it's ticking along is to go outside (in the rain?) unlock a box and see if we're using gas.  For electric I need to have a torch to see the meter which is in a box at the back of a crowded cupboard.  So no - I don't how much we are using this second.  Or an hour ago.  So can't judge if what I'm doing might save me money or not - beyond thinking "if I turn off the lights the electric use goes down" and that has nothing to do with having a smart meter.

You know exactly where your smart meters are, you've just told us!

Your gas meter is in a box outside and your electricity meter is at the back of a crowded cupboard.

What makes you think you don't know where they are?

SAC2334

Smart meters will  stop most of the vast ammount of energy fiddling .and it is VAST , in the central terraces and inner city areas.
 . I m retired now  as a meter readert but in my town of Doncaster I would find hundreds of them, with dozens in the same streets . Its the rougher parts of town i found this happening mostly with it being rarer in better off areas .

.Most of them they would nt allow access and it would  need a court warrant which all but British Gas would spend, to end the free energy bonanza .Scottish Power and EDF were two of the worst who by their actions were turning a blind eye to meter tampering. 

After a gas meter explosion in 2014 British Gas RPU and Cadent went into just 20 properties in Dundas Rd  Sheffield ( its in the press reports ) nearby the explosion  , under the pretext of checking for gas leaks , without warrants, and found 7 bypassing meters out of the 20 properties visited . This even shocked RPU officers the extent of meter tampering in the UK.
Problem is that these meter bypassers refuse access for smart meters up to the death and it would still need a warrant to get in. 
It would be very interesting to see how many warrents are taken out by the suppliers to forceably replace a suspect tamper ( very low payments recieved in years ) of old type card and key prepayment meters  

mmmmikey

matt_drummer said:

gbhxu said:

jackieblack said:

gbhxu said:

OFGEM state that you don't have to have a smart meter installed unless you don't want one.

🤔 Huh? 🤔🤷🏻‍♀️

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper.

So that is very clear.

You can decline an offer to have smart meters fitted early, but when the meters are eventually replaced you must have smart meters unless there is a good reason not to.

Once the meters are required to be replaced, you must have smart meters, there is no choice.

I don't know what constitutes a good reason not to fit them, but I doubt it is any of the common objections posted on this website.

I think I read somewhere that Bill Gates is planning to use the smart meter network to activate the tracking devices he arranged to have injected into us as part of the covid "fake news" vaccination programme after his plan to do this via the 5G network was foiled by vigilant internet users. This is so he can tell his friend Elvis (who isn't dead but is living on the far side of the moon assembling an army of flesh eating zombies) where we are when the attack comes.

Or something like that.

I'll be OK because I've made myself a hat out of tin foil (there's lots of good advice on the internet on the best way to do this) but I'm really concerned that vulnerable 80 year old ladies may fall victim to this wicked scam.

THIS SMART METER ROLL OUT MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!!

(Is that a good enough reason for you ?)

matt_drummer

mmmmikey said:

matt_drummer said:

gbhxu said:

jackieblack said:

gbhxu said:

OFGEM state that you don't have to have a smart meter installed unless you don't want one.

🤔 Huh? 🤔🤷🏻‍♀️

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper.

So that is very clear.

You can decline an offer to have smart meters fitted early, but when the meters are eventually replaced you must have smart meters unless there is a good reason not to.

Once the meters are required to be replaced, you must have smart meters, there is no choice.

I don't know what constitutes a good reason not to fit them, but I doubt it is any of the common objections posted on this website.

I think I read somewhere that Bill Gates is planning to use the smart meter network to activate the tracking devices he arranged to have injected into us as part of the covid "fake news" vaccination programme after his plan to do this via the 5G network was foiled by vigilant internet users. This is so he can tell his friend Elvis (who isn't dead but is living on the far side of the moon assembling an army of flesh eating zombies) where we are when the attack comes.

Or something like that.

I'll be OK because I've made myself a hat out of tin foil (there's lots of good advice on the internet on the best way to do this) but I'm really concerned that vulnerable 80 year old ladies may fall victim to this wicked scam.

THIS SMART METER ROLL OUT MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!!

(Is that a good enough reason for you ?)

I don't think it'll wash!

In any case, whether you are joking, which I am sure you are, or if you don't want smart meters, it is not me that you would need to have a good enough reason for. I am not an energy supplier and I don't fit smart meters.

I truly cannot think of a good reason that would satisfy the people that fit the meters, but would be interested to hear them if anybody knows.

The meters are not ours and the only truly plausible good reason I can think of is that a customer no longer wanted to be supplied with the energy being metered.

mmmmikey

matt_drummer said:

mmmmikey said:

matt_drummer said:

gbhxu said:

jackieblack said:

gbhxu said:

OFGEM state that you don't have to have a smart meter installed unless you don't want one.

🤔 Huh? 🤔🤷🏻‍♀️

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper.

So that is very clear.

You can decline an offer to have smart meters fitted early, but when the meters are eventually replaced you must have smart meters unless there is a good reason not to.

Once the meters are required to be replaced, you must have smart meters, there is no choice.

I don't know what constitutes a good reason not to fit them, but I doubt it is any of the common objections posted on this website.

I think I read somewhere that Bill Gates is planning to use the smart meter network to activate the tracking devices he arranged to have injected into us as part of the covid "fake news" vaccination programme after his plan to do this via the 5G network was foiled by vigilant internet users. This is so he can tell his friend Elvis (who isn't dead but is living on the far side of the moon assembling an army of flesh eating zombies) where we are when the attack comes.

Or something like that.

I'll be OK because I've made myself a hat out of tin foil (there's lots of good advice on the internet on the best way to do this) but I'm really concerned that vulnerable 80 year old ladies may fall victim to this wicked scam.

THIS SMART METER ROLL OUT MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!!

(Is that a good enough reason for you ?)

I don't think it'll wash!

In any case, whether you are joking, which I am sure you are, or if you don't want smart meters, it is not me that you would need to have a good enough reason for. I am not an energy supplier and I don't fit smart meters.

I truly cannot think of a good reason that would satisfy the people that fit the meters, but would be interested to hear them if anybody knows.

The meters are not ours and the only truly plausible good reason I can think of is that a customer no longer wanted to be supplied with the energy being metered.

Yes, agree with everything you are saying. If you don't want to use the smart features then fine, but if you refuse to have one installed you should accept that your costs will go up to reflect the cost of manual meter readings, lack of access to off peak discounts and so on.

matt_drummer

mmmmikey said:

matt_drummer said:

mmmmikey said:

matt_drummer said:

gbhxu said:

jackieblack said:

gbhxu said:

OFGEM state that you don't have to have a smart meter installed unless you don't want one.

🤔 Huh? 🤔🤷🏻‍♀️

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper.

So that is very clear.

You can decline an offer to have smart meters fitted early, but when the meters are eventually replaced you must have smart meters unless there is a good reason not to.

Once the meters are required to be replaced, you must have smart meters, there is no choice.

I don't know what constitutes a good reason not to fit them, but I doubt it is any of the common objections posted on this website.

I think I read somewhere that Bill Gates is planning to use the smart meter network to activate the tracking devices he arranged to have injected into us as part of the covid "fake news" vaccination programme after his plan to do this via the 5G network was foiled by vigilant internet users. This is so he can tell his friend Elvis (who isn't dead but is living on the far side of the moon assembling an army of flesh eating zombies) where we are when the attack comes.

Or something like that.

I'll be OK because I've made myself a hat out of tin foil (there's lots of good advice on the internet on the best way to do this) but I'm really concerned that vulnerable 80 year old ladies may fall victim to this wicked scam.

THIS SMART METER ROLL OUT MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!!

(Is that a good enough reason for you ?)

I don't think it'll wash!

In any case, whether you are joking, which I am sure you are, or if you don't want smart meters, it is not me that you would need to have a good enough reason for. I am not an energy supplier and I don't fit smart meters.

I truly cannot think of a good reason that would satisfy the people that fit the meters, but would be interested to hear them if anybody knows.

The meters are not ours and the only truly plausible good reason I can think of is that a customer no longer wanted to be supplied with the energy being metered.

Yes, agree with everything you are saying. If you don't want to use the smart features then fine, but if you refuse to have one installed you should accept that your costs will go up to reflect the cost of manual meter readings, lack of access to off peak discounts and so on.

The post I quoted has the message from OFGEM, you can refuse to have smart meters fitted but only when the meters don't need to be changed, that is early.

You cannot refuse to have smart meters fitted when the meters actually have to be changed, it is implied where they say that a supplier must fit a smart meter when a meter is changed unless there is a good reason not to.

`I don't want them' will not qualify as a good reason, I suspect.

I don't know what constitutes a good reason not to fit smart meters, I would love to know the valid reasons that would prevent the installation of smart meters.

Personally, I think they should be mandatory, they are not our meters and putting obstacles in the way of progress should be against the law.

matt_drummer

You could argue that some customers are using obstructive tactics to prevent the installation of smart meters.

Eventually suppliers will have to resort to these kind of opt out strategies to install smart meters in the homes of the most obstinate of customers, if they won't make appointments themselves, the suppliers will need to make appointments for them.

I don't agree with the suggestion of a fine in this instance, but I wouldn't object to a daily fine after all reasonable attempts have been made by the supplier to find a suitable time to fit the new meters.

gbhxu

matt_drummer said:

mmmmikey said:

matt_drummer said:

mmmmikey said:

matt_drummer said:

gbhxu said:

jackieblack said:

gbhxu said:

OFGEM state that you don't have to have a smart meter installed unless you don't want one.

🤔 Huh? 🤔🤷🏻‍♀️

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper.

So that is very clear.

You can decline an offer to have smart meters fitted early, but when the meters are eventually replaced you must have smart meters unless there is a good reason not to.

Once the meters are required to be replaced, you must have smart meters, there is no choice.

I don't know what constitutes a good reason not to fit them, but I doubt it is any of the common objections posted on this website.

I think I read somewhere that Bill Gates is planning to use the smart meter network to activate the tracking devices he arranged to have injected into us as part of the covid "fake news" vaccination programme after his plan to do this via the 5G network was foiled by vigilant internet users. This is so he can tell his friend Elvis (who isn't dead but is living on the far side of the moon assembling an army of flesh eating zombies) where we are when the attack comes.

Or something like that.

I'll be OK because I've made myself a hat out of tin foil (there's lots of good advice on the internet on the best way to do this) but I'm really concerned that vulnerable 80 year old ladies may fall victim to this wicked scam.

THIS SMART METER ROLL OUT MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!!

(Is that a good enough reason for you ?)

I don't think it'll wash!

In any case, whether you are joking, which I am sure you are, or if you don't want smart meters, it is not me that you would need to have a good enough reason for. I am not an energy supplier and I don't fit smart meters.

I truly cannot think of a good reason that would satisfy the people that fit the meters, but would be interested to hear them if anybody knows.

Personally, I think they should be mandatory, they are not our meters and putting obstacles in the way of progress should be against the law.

No mobile signal

matt_drummer

gbhxu said:

matt_drummer said:

mmmmikey said:

matt_drummer said:

mmmmikey said:

matt_drummer said:

gbhxu said:

jackieblack said:

gbhxu said:

OFGEM state that you don't have to have a smart meter installed unless you don't want one.

🤔 Huh? 🤔🤷🏻‍♀️

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper.

So that is very clear.

You can decline an offer to have smart meters fitted early, but when the meters are eventually replaced you must have smart meters unless there is a good reason not to.

Once the meters are required to be replaced, you must have smart meters, there is no choice.

I don't know what constitutes a good reason not to fit them, but I doubt it is any of the common objections posted on this website.

I think I read somewhere that Bill Gates is planning to use the smart meter network to activate the tracking devices he arranged to have injected into us as part of the covid "fake news" vaccination programme after his plan to do this via the 5G network was foiled by vigilant internet users. This is so he can tell his friend Elvis (who isn't dead but is living on the far side of the moon assembling an army of flesh eating zombies) where we are when the attack comes.

Or something like that.

I'll be OK because I've made myself a hat out of tin foil (there's lots of good advice on the internet on the best way to do this) but I'm really concerned that vulnerable 80 year old ladies may fall victim to this wicked scam.

THIS SMART METER ROLL OUT MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!!

(Is that a good enough reason for you ?)

I don't think it'll wash!

In any case, whether you are joking, which I am sure you are, or if you don't want smart meters, it is not me that you would need to have a good enough reason for. I am not an energy supplier and I don't fit smart meters.

I truly cannot think of a good reason that would satisfy the people that fit the meters, but would be interested to hear them if anybody knows.

Personally, I think they should be mandatory, they are not our meters and putting obstacles in the way of progress should be against the law.

No mobile signal

You can still have them fitted, they will function as normal meters, in dumb mode.

Not a good reason not to have them when old meters need replacing. 

Technology will improve and they will be made to work in smart mode given time.

@dolor may be able to give some insight into this.