Speeding fine

CliveOfIndia

loobiloo said:

OK fine. I am the owner and the driver. 

But are you the RK?  If so,  you would have initially received the NIP.

Have you moved recently and not updated the DVLA?  This could possibly explain why you didn't receive the initial NIP?

loobiloo

I'm the registered  owner. 
I don't remember receiving the NIP. I certainly wouldn't have ignored it.  I've not moved recently. 

TooManyPoints

I haven't read all of this since my first reply (I;ll try to get to it later). But...

The first letter I received did ask about me expenses, along with details of the offence. 

Did this offence by any chance take place in the Avon & Somerset area?

It doesn't matter if not, but they handle things a little differently.

Whatever has happened, you have been convicted in court. The only thing to do if you want this revisited is to perform a Statutory Declaration. This will set the conviction aside and the prosecution will begin again. If you plead guilty you can ask the court if they would sentence you at the Fixed Penalty equivalent (£100 and 3 points). This assumes that your speed was low enough to qualify for one (what was your speed and the limit?). Magistrates have guidance which allows them to do so:

Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances.

Whether they will or not depends on what you received, what you replied to and how you responded. With you not keeping copies (if I read correctly) it's going to be difficult to establish your position. I'll have a look through the thread later to see what I can discover.

Car_54

loobiloo said:

I'm the registered  owner. 
I don't remember receiving the NIP. I certainly wouldn't have ignored it.  I've not moved recently. 

As above, there is no such thing as a registered owner, only a registered keeper.

loobiloo

TooManyPoints said:

I haven't read all of this since my first reply (I;ll try to get to it later). But...

The first letter I received did ask about me expenses, along with details of the offence. 

Did this offence by any chance take place in the Avon & Somerset area?

It doesn't matter if not, but they handle things a little differently.

Whatever has happened, you have been convicted in court. The only thing to do if you want this revisited is to perform a Statutory Declaration. This will set the conviction aside and the prosecution will begin again. If you plead guilty you can ask the court if they would sentence you at the Fixed Penalty equivalent (£100 and 3 points). This assumes that your speed was low enough to qualify for one (what was your speed and the limit?). Magistrates have guidance which allows them to do so:

Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances.

Whether they will or not depends on what you received, what you replied to and how you responded. With you not keeping copies (if I read correctly) it's going to be difficult to establish your position. I'll have a look through the thread later to see what I can discover.

Many thanks.
I'm in Brighton and Hove. The speed limit was 30,i believe I was doing 35 which I saw after I'd been flashed. 
I'm in touch with the relevant department and hoping they can explain the situation for me.
Ive no clue what a statuary declaration is so if you can offer any advice I'd appreciate it. 
Thanks again. 

TadleyBaggie

I'm with the others, there is something very basic wrong here. The police have no idea (and will never guess) who the driver is until a NIP and S172 request to name the driver has been issued and replied to.

Hopefully when the SD is done and they revert the offence back to the SJPN stage, the complete document trail should be revealed.

loobiloo

TadleyBaggie said:

I'm with the others, there is something very basic wrong here. The police have no idea (and will never guess) who the driver is until a NIP and S172 request to name the driver has been issued and replied to.

Hopefully when the SD is done and they revert the offence back to the SJPN stage, the complete document trail should be revealed.

I understand that. And I know I wouldn't have ignored such a document. 
I'm waiting to hear back from the magistrates courts in this regard. 

TadleyBaggie

Is there anyone else in the house who may have "helpfully" replied naming the driver?

loobiloo

Only my dog. 

TooManyPoints

The normal process is (apologies if it's already been explained):

1. A Notice of intended Prosecution (NIP) and a "Request for Driver's details" is sent to the Registered Keeper.

2. Assuming the RK is you, you should have responded to this, naming yourself as the driver. NOTE: Whilst some forces allow online nominations of somebody else, if you are naming yourself as the driver this cannot be done online. A signed "wet" response is needed as it is used as evidence should the matter proceed to trial

3. The police respond in one of three ways:

• Offer a course. In a 30mph limit this would be the usual decision up to 42mph.
• Offer a fixed penalty (43mph to 50mph)
• Take court action (>50mph)

The first two should be made in a matter of a couple of weeks. The last may take up to six months though can occur earlier than that.

If you did not provide a signed return under (2) above the police will have no evidence that you were the driver. In that case the police will prosecute you for "Failing to provide driver's details". The fine you mention looks a bit on the low side for that to have occurred but have you checked your driving record online to see what endorsement code has been applied? It will be SP30 if you have been convicted of speeding or MS90 if you have been convicted of FtP.

As I said, this is impossible to unravel without knowing the details.