Speeding fine

loobiloo

Car_54 said:

loobiloo said:

CliveOfIndia said:

loobiloo said:

turnitround said:

Normally what happens is-

You get a letter to tell you that you have been recorded breaking the speed limit.

You have to respond to the letter by filling in the form admitting you were the driver.

They then send you a second letter which, if you qualify offers you the speed awareness course.

This second letter gives you the option of paying the fine or booking the course. You must do one or the other by the date given on the second letter.

I received the original letter last month. As I said, there was reams of forms to fill in about my  monthly expenses. I then saw I could respond online which I did n March 8th 

When you say "original letter" - what was it about?  Assuming you were recorded by a fixed roadside camera, the first letter you receive says that the vehicle was caught exceeding the speed limit, and asks you to confirm whether or not you were the driver.  You return that, saying who the driver was, and the driver would then receive a further letter offering a choice of a FPN or appearing in court, or a speed awareness course if that's an option.

The first NIP / S172 wouldn't usually ask about income etc.

The first letter I received did ask about me expenses, along with details of the offence. 

In that case it must have been a Single Justice Procedure Notice.
It certainly couldn't have been the first letter sent, since neither the police nor the court would have known that you were the driver.
As CliveofIndia has outlined above, a NIP and s172 request would first be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle. He/she would name the driver, who in turn would get their own s172 request. Only on receipt of that, signed to confirm that he#/she she was driving, would a fixed penalty or course be offered. (Note that the driver would not be asked to admit the offence.)
Someone must have received those notices, and nominated you. If not you, it seems someone has forged your signature.

No one forged my signature. The letter was addressed to me, the owner of the car. 

loobiloo

cymruchris said:

loobiloo said:

CliveOfIndia said:

loobiloo said:

turnitround said:

Normally what happens is-

You get a letter to tell you that you have been recorded breaking the speed limit.

You have to respond to the letter by filling in the form admitting you were the driver.

They then send you a second letter which, if you qualify offers you the speed awareness course.

This second letter gives you the option of paying the fine or booking the course. You must do one or the other by the date given on the second letter.

I received the original letter last month. As I said, there was reams of forms to fill in about my  monthly expenses. I then saw I could respond online which I did n March 8th 

When you say "original letter" - what was it about?  Assuming you were recorded by a fixed roadside camera, the first letter you receive says that the vehicle was caught exceeding the speed limit, and asks you to confirm whether or not you were the driver.  You return that, saying who the driver was, and the driver would then receive a further letter offering a choice of a FPN or appearing in court, or a speed awareness course if that's an option.

The first NIP / S172 wouldn't usually ask about income etc.

The first letter I received did ask about me expenses, along with details of the offence. 

Do you still have that letter? Are you able to photograph it - then edit the photo to remove your name and address and any reference numbers so we can see what it said? (Most phones allow you to draw black lines over personal info in photos)

Annoyingly not. 

CliveOfIndia

loobiloo said:

Car_54 said:

loobiloo said:

CliveOfIndia said:

loobiloo said:

turnitround said:

Normally what happens is-

You get a letter to tell you that you have been recorded breaking the speed limit.

You have to respond to the letter by filling in the form admitting you were the driver.

They then send you a second letter which, if you qualify offers you the speed awareness course.

This second letter gives you the option of paying the fine or booking the course. You must do one or the other by the date given on the second letter.

I received the original letter last month. As I said, there was reams of forms to fill in about my  monthly expenses. I then saw I could respond online which I did n March 8th 

When you say "original letter" - what was it about?  Assuming you were recorded by a fixed roadside camera, the first letter you receive says that the vehicle was caught exceeding the speed limit, and asks you to confirm whether or not you were the driver.  You return that, saying who the driver was, and the driver would then receive a further letter offering a choice of a FPN or appearing in court, or a speed awareness course if that's an option.

The first NIP / S172 wouldn't usually ask about income etc.

The first letter I received did ask about me expenses, along with details of the offence. 

In that case it must have been a Single Justice Procedure Notice.
It certainly couldn't have been the first letter sent, since neither the police nor the court would have known that you were the driver.
As CliveofIndia has outlined above, a NIP and s172 request would first be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle. He/she would name the driver, who in turn would get their own s172 request. Only on receipt of that, signed to confirm that he#/she she was driving, would a fixed penalty or course be offered. (Note that the driver would not be asked to admit the offence.)
Someone must have received those notices, and nominated you. If not you, it seems someone has forged your signature.

No one forged my signature. The letter was addressed to me, the owner of the car. 

When you say "the owner of the car" - are you the Registered Keeper?  For instance, if the car is on finance, it's possible for the RK to be the finance company.  Or if it's a company car, the company will often be the RK.

I only ask because the RK will always receive the first NIP and S172.  And because the RK can quite legitimately be different to the driver, the RK has to respond saying who the driver is, before things can proceed further.

As mentioned previously, it appears that the original offer of a Fixed Penalty was either rejected or ignored, which is why it went to court.  It's at that point that you may very well be asked about your income and expenses, to allow the court to work out an appropriate penalty.  But you certainly wouldn't be asked about finances in "the first letter".

Wonka_2

Can't see whether it's been asked already - but were you stopped at the roadside and gave your details ?

When I read the first post I assumed it was a roadside camera - but maybe it was purely an assumption ?

If so then the first letter to you may have been the SAC/FPN notice if they'd already confirmed your details at roadside. Still doesn't explain why you couldn't pay on the basis of that letter - and without it any more you've little hope of a challenge if it's now been to court  

loobiloo

No, I knew I'd been flashed and was not surprised to receive the fine. 

Car_54

loobiloo said:

Car_54 said:

loobiloo said:

CliveOfIndia said:

loobiloo said:

turnitround said:

Normally what happens is-

You get a letter to tell you that you have been recorded breaking the speed limit.

You have to respond to the letter by filling in the form admitting you were the driver.

They then send you a second letter which, if you qualify offers you the speed awareness course.

This second letter gives you the option of paying the fine or booking the course. You must do one or the other by the date given on the second letter.

I received the original letter last month. As I said, there was reams of forms to fill in about my  monthly expenses. I then saw I could respond online which I did n March 8th 

When you say "original letter" - what was it about?  Assuming you were recorded by a fixed roadside camera, the first letter you receive says that the vehicle was caught exceeding the speed limit, and asks you to confirm whether or not you were the driver.  You return that, saying who the driver was, and the driver would then receive a further letter offering a choice of a FPN or appearing in court, or a speed awareness course if that's an option.

The first NIP / S172 wouldn't usually ask about income etc.

The first letter I received did ask about me expenses, along with details of the offence. 

In that case it must have been a Single Justice Procedure Notice.
It certainly couldn't have been the first letter sent, since neither the police nor the court would have known that you were the driver.
As CliveofIndia has outlined above, a NIP and s172 request would first be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle. He/she would name the driver, who in turn would get their own s172 request. Only on receipt of that, signed to confirm that he#/she she was driving, would a fixed penalty or course be offered. (Note that the driver would not be asked to admit the offence.)
Someone must have received those notices, and nominated you. If not you, it seems someone has forged your signature.

No one forged my signature. The letter was addressed to me, the owner of the car. 

You may be the owner, but that is irrelevant. The letter would have been addressed to you as the person accused, i.e. who had been identified as the driver at the time of the offence. How do you suppose the police had identified you as such?

loobiloo

CliveOfIndia said:

loobiloo said:

Car_54 said:

loobiloo said:

CliveOfIndia said:

loobiloo said:

turnitround said:

Normally what happens is-

You get a letter to tell you that you have been recorded breaking the speed limit.

You have to respond to the letter by filling in the form admitting you were the driver.

They then send you a second letter which, if you qualify offers you the speed awareness course.

This second letter gives you the option of paying the fine or booking the course. You must do one or the other by the date given on the second letter.

I received the original letter last month. As I said, there was reams of forms to fill in about my  monthly expenses. I then saw I could respond online which I did n March 8th 

When you say "original letter" - what was it about?  Assuming you were recorded by a fixed roadside camera, the first letter you receive says that the vehicle was caught exceeding the speed limit, and asks you to confirm whether or not you were the driver.  You return that, saying who the driver was, and the driver would then receive a further letter offering a choice of a FPN or appearing in court, or a speed awareness course if that's an option.

The first NIP / S172 wouldn't usually ask about income etc.

The first letter I received did ask about me expenses, along with details of the offence. 

In that case it must have been a Single Justice Procedure Notice.
It certainly couldn't have been the first letter sent, since neither the police nor the court would have known that you were the driver.
As CliveofIndia has outlined above, a NIP and s172 request would first be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle. He/she would name the driver, who in turn would get their own s172 request. Only on receipt of that, signed to confirm that he#/she she was driving, would a fixed penalty or course be offered. (Note that the driver would not be asked to admit the offence.)
Someone must have received those notices, and nominated you. If not you, it seems someone has forged your signature.

No one forged my signature. The letter was addressed to me, the owner of the car. 

When you say "the owner of the car" - are you the Registered Keeper?  For instance, if the car is on finance, it's possible for the RK to be the finance company.  Or if it's a company car, the company will often be the RK.

I only ask because the RK will always receive the first NIP and S172.  And because the RK can quite legitimately be different to the driver, the RK has to respond saying who the driver is, before things can proceed further.

As mentioned previously, it appears that the original offer of a Fixed Penalty was either rejected or ignored, which is why it went to court.  It's at that point that you may very well be asked about your income and expenses, to allow the court to work out an appropriate penalty.  But you certainly wouldn't be asked about finances in "the first letter".

Yes I'm the registered the keeper. I was driving my car. I knew I'd been flashed. The first correspondence I got included requests for my expenses. 

loobiloo

Car_54 said:

loobiloo said:

Car_54 said:

loobiloo said:

CliveOfIndia said:

loobiloo said:

turnitround said:

Normally what happens is-

You get a letter to tell you that you have been recorded breaking the speed limit.

You have to respond to the letter by filling in the form admitting you were the driver.

They then send you a second letter which, if you qualify offers you the speed awareness course.

This second letter gives you the option of paying the fine or booking the course. You must do one or the other by the date given on the second letter.

I received the original letter last month. As I said, there was reams of forms to fill in about my  monthly expenses. I then saw I could respond online which I did n March 8th 

When you say "original letter" - what was it about?  Assuming you were recorded by a fixed roadside camera, the first letter you receive says that the vehicle was caught exceeding the speed limit, and asks you to confirm whether or not you were the driver.  You return that, saying who the driver was, and the driver would then receive a further letter offering a choice of a FPN or appearing in court, or a speed awareness course if that's an option.

The first NIP / S172 wouldn't usually ask about income etc.

The first letter I received did ask about me expenses, along with details of the offence. 

In that case it must have been a Single Justice Procedure Notice.
It certainly couldn't have been the first letter sent, since neither the police nor the court would have known that you were the driver.
As CliveofIndia has outlined above, a NIP and s172 request would first be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle. He/she would name the driver, who in turn would get their own s172 request. Only on receipt of that, signed to confirm that he#/she she was driving, would a fixed penalty or course be offered. (Note that the driver would not be asked to admit the offence.)
Someone must have received those notices, and nominated you. If not you, it seems someone has forged your signature.

No one forged my signature. The letter was addressed to me, the owner of the car. 

You may be the owner, but that is irrelevant. The letter would have been addressed to you as the person accused, i.e. who had been identified as the driver at the time of the offence. How do you suppose the police had identified you as such?

Because the police are able to find out the details of the owner from my registration. I'm sure you know that. I then acknowledged I was driving the car. 

CliveOfIndia

loobiloo said:

CliveOfIndia said:

loobiloo said:

Car_54 said:

loobiloo said:

CliveOfIndia said:

loobiloo said:

turnitround said:

Normally what happens is-

You get a letter to tell you that you have been recorded breaking the speed limit.

You have to respond to the letter by filling in the form admitting you were the driver.

They then send you a second letter which, if you qualify offers you the speed awareness course.

This second letter gives you the option of paying the fine or booking the course. You must do one or the other by the date given on the second letter.

I received the original letter last month. As I said, there was reams of forms to fill in about my  monthly expenses. I then saw I could respond online which I did n March 8th 

When you say "original letter" - what was it about?  Assuming you were recorded by a fixed roadside camera, the first letter you receive says that the vehicle was caught exceeding the speed limit, and asks you to confirm whether or not you were the driver.  You return that, saying who the driver was, and the driver would then receive a further letter offering a choice of a FPN or appearing in court, or a speed awareness course if that's an option.

The first NIP / S172 wouldn't usually ask about income etc.

The first letter I received did ask about me expenses, along with details of the offence. 

In that case it must have been a Single Justice Procedure Notice.
It certainly couldn't have been the first letter sent, since neither the police nor the court would have known that you were the driver.
As CliveofIndia has outlined above, a NIP and s172 request would first be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle. He/she would name the driver, who in turn would get their own s172 request. Only on receipt of that, signed to confirm that he#/she she was driving, would a fixed penalty or course be offered. (Note that the driver would not be asked to admit the offence.)
Someone must have received those notices, and nominated you. If not you, it seems someone has forged your signature.

No one forged my signature. The letter was addressed to me, the owner of the car. 

When you say "the owner of the car" - are you the Registered Keeper?  For instance, if the car is on finance, it's possible for the RK to be the finance company.  Or if it's a company car, the company will often be the RK.

I only ask because the RK will always receive the first NIP and S172.  And because the RK can quite legitimately be different to the driver, the RK has to respond saying who the driver is, before things can proceed further.

As mentioned previously, it appears that the original offer of a Fixed Penalty was either rejected or ignored, which is why it went to court.  It's at that point that you may very well be asked about your income and expenses, to allow the court to work out an appropriate penalty.  But you certainly wouldn't be asked about finances in "the first letter".

Yes I'm the registered the keeper. I was driving my car. I knew I'd been flashed. The first correspondence I got included requests for my expenses. 

I'm sorry but that doesn't add up.

The first thing a Registered Keeper will know about a speeding offence is the NIP and and the S172.  The S172 must be returned to confirm who the driver was (even if you are the RK, the driver could have been your spouse, parent, child, friend who is insured to drive your car, etc.).  Until the driver is confirmed, any further action cannot be taken.

And it's only if the driver declines the offer of a FPN that it goes to court, at which point they could well ask about income etc.

turnitround

There is something very wrong here. 
The letters are standard. The first notification could not possibly have asked for details of your expenses. Those details are only requested at the court stage.
You must have either missed or ignored previous correspondence.