Air Source Heat Pump - Planning permission required!

matt_drummer

Rodders53 said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news... but

Permitted development is one ASHP and you already have two so PP was always going to be needed.

You'll probably need to engage a MCS or similar qualified designer to do the calcs for all your existing and proposed installs and perhaps help with the Planning application paperwork...  as, as I understand it, PP would be needed regardless of when noise level the new wet ASHP on its own produces.

They are going to want to know what the overall effect of the final installation is on the adjoining properties (and if any can be seen from the roads/paths etc.,. if relevant).

Thanks for your help.

I intend to remove the other units, one has been there for 19 years so I think its ok on it's own but not when I add to it.

Nothing can be seen from the roads so I am ok there.

It's going to be an expensive and time consuming nightmare!

matt_drummer

ispookie666 said:

@matt_drummer
I would look at another manufacturer.  62dB is pretty insane!

I know, I did ask Octopus if it was correct, and it is.

But, it will heat water to 60c at -25c, that is when it will be at its noisiest.

It will never be -25c here so it will never make 62db, but that is what they quote and that is what we have to use in the calculation.

I could go for a quieter heat pump but that means I have to use an installer that is not Octopus.


Either way it is going to cost more than I hoped.

matt_drummer

The strange thing about planning laws is that the neighbours gas boiler flue is 2 meters from our and our other neighbours boundary, it's noisier than the heat pump will be but no planning permission is required.

Of course, I don't have a problem with the neighbour's boiler and would never complain about it.

It just seems our planning laws are a bit inconsistent.

Swipe

I had two Daikin 3.5KW aircon/heatpump units at my old bungalow for heating. I didn't bother with planning permission as they were out of sight. No one ever complained about the noise but they got considerably louder with age, especially when it was cold.

Reed_Richards

matt_drummer said:

But, it will heat water to 60c at -25c, that is when it will be at its noisiest.

I imagine you are just quoting the spec. but you should not aspire to heat your hot water too hot; it just degrades the efficiency of the heat pump.  60 C is scaldingly hot; if at all possible get a bigger capacity tank and heat it to a lower temperature then mix it with less cold water to get a temperature you can tolerate.  I don't think any of the regular posters here who own heat pumps heat their hot water to anything more than 50 C.  

macman

matt_drummer said:

The strange thing about planning laws is that the neighbours gas boiler flue is 2 meters from our and our other neighbours boundary, it's noisier than the heat pump will be but no planning permission is required.

Of course, I don't have a problem with the neighbour's boiler and would never complain about it.

It just seems our planning laws are a bit inconsistent.

The difference is presumably that a gas boiler will not be running for long periods at full bore.  An ASHP will be.

70sbudgie

It sounds like the DHW is the issue (heating to 60°C). Does the Octopus offering allow for an alternative?

I am thinking of the hot water tank with an integrated HP that have been discussed on the "green" board. If you have a separate HP for DHW, I would have thought that it would reduce the size of the HP (and therefore noise) for the heating. Would 2x smaller HPs be quieter? 

I am very curious to see what solution you come up with.

matt_drummer

Reed_Richards said:

matt_drummer said:

But, it will heat water to 60c at -25c, that is when it will be at its noisiest.

I imagine you are just quoting the spec. but you should not aspire to heat your hot water too hot; it just degrades the efficiency of the heat pump.  60 C is scaldingly hot; if at all possible get a bigger capacity tank and heat it to a lower temperature then mix it with less cold water to get a temperature you can tolerate.  I don't think any of the regular posters here who own heat pumps heat their hot water to anything more than 50 C.  

It is just the capability of it. I got the figures slightly wrong, it works at -25c but will heat water to 60c when it is -7c outside.

I will not be heating the water to 60c on a regular basis.

All that matters is the manufacturers quoted maximum noise.

matt_drummer

70sbudgie said:

It sounds like the DHW is the issue (heating to 60°C). Does the Octopus offering allow for an alternative?

I am thinking of the hot water tank with an integrated HP that have been discussed on the "green" board. If you have a separate HP for DHW, I would have thought that it would reduce the size of the HP (and therefore noise) for the heating. Would 2x smaller HPs be quieter? 

I am very curious to see what solution you come up with.

Actually, I don't know that it is.

It was my explanation for this heat pump having a higher than usual quoted noise output.

2 smaller heat pumps might be quieter but they won't heat my house.

The heat pump does not do central heating and DHW at the same time, none of them do as far as I know. Therefore, another source of DHW won't reduce the size of heat pump I need to heat our house.

I am even more curious to see what solution I come up with!

Maybe an different heat pump, but that will require a different installer.

I don't know what to do at the moment but I have started my planning application.

Reed_Richards

I don't think my (LG) heat pump will get the DHW above 50 C without invoking the aid of the immersion heater; that's certainly the way it is set-up at present.  Octopus seem to be shooting themselves and you in the foot by supplying a heat pump that makes most noise doing something you would never want it to do.  

You certainly need planning permission to install more than one heat pump so I don't think @70sbudgie 's suggestion would get you anywhere.