Air Source Heat Pump - Planning permission required!

matt_drummer

Hi,

I am not sure this is the right place for this but I looked and can't find anywhere more suitable.

Some of you will remember I have been waiting for my quote from Octopus Energy for an ASHP, well I have it today.

Without going in to too many details, the heat pump will be around 12 metres from a bedroom window at a neighbouring property and the particular heat pump and location means we exceed the MCS noise limit of 42.00db by 0.50db, the calculation that needs to be done comes out at 42.50db.

I have contacted the local council today, and predictably, they are very busy at the moment and will respond to my initial enquiry within 20 working days.

I have looked at the planning portal and I cant really see what kind of application to make, they all seem overly complex.


Has anybody done this recently that has any advice that would help me?

It's Ipswich Borough Council that I am going to have to deal with.

Thanks in advance.

MultiFuelBurner

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/heat-pumps/planning-permission-air-source-heat-pump

matt_drummer

MultiFuelBurner said:

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/heat-pumps/planning-permission-air-source-heat-pump

Thank you.

I have seen this.

We fail on the MCS noise test so I need to apply for planning permission.

I don't know what application to use though so I asked my local council and they need up to 20 working days to assist me.

It's just really frustrating.

MultiFuelBurner

matt_drummer said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/heat-pumps/planning-permission-air-source-heat-pump

Thank you.

I have seen this.

We fail on the MCS noise test so I need to apply for planning permission.

I don't know what application to use though so I asked my local council and they need up to 20 working days to assist me.

It's just really frustrating.

Our local council, when asked about two air to air systems as we know one is permitted two will probably need planning, asked us for £120 for the privilege of asking the question. I wonder if you can pop down to Ipswich council and speak to someone face to face?

matt_drummer

Good idea, thank you, I will give it a go.

That's another complication I have too, I have some air conditioning, one new and one that is quite old that I intend to replace.

I have a plan to deal with that though.

I am going to need something formal from them to give to Octopus Energy before they will install.

It's a problem I am just going to have to deal with.

I posted this just as much to help others as it might me.

Our government want us to do this, and I have (almost) the perfect house for it, they just don't make it easy.

You would think there would be a dedicated planning process for this, but as far as I can see, it is just a general planning permission application, no different to if I wanted to build an extension.

tacpot12

Have you reviewed the calculation and considered what you can do to get below 42dB? 

This video tells you how to do the calculation and suggests that there are a variety of ways in which you might get the sound level below the level at which you need planning permission, e.g. by setting a lower design temperature (and increasing the size of pipes/radiators accordingly): https://youtu.be/tXO3AaJcb-0

Rodders53

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news... but

Permitted development is one ASHP and you already have two so PP was always going to be needed.

You'll probably need to engage a MCS or similar qualified designer to do the calcs for all your existing and proposed installs and perhaps help with the Planning application paperwork...  as, as I understand it, PP would be needed regardless of when noise level the new wet ASHP on its own produces.

They are going to want to know what the overall effect of the final installation is on the adjoining properties (and if any can be seen from the roads/paths etc.,. if relevant).

ispookie666

@MultiFuelBurner Any heat pump which can cool does not have permitted development rights, aka, you need PP. The exemption is only for Heat pumps which can heat.  Unfortunately, these are the rules; councils are hit-and-miss. 

@matt_drummer
I have gone through PP for my A2A heat pumps.  If it's noise related, you might need a Noise assessment.  This cost me around 1000, add the PP cost of 250 and a few hours to do the drawings and applications, and all in all, it cost me 1500.  For full disclosure, I have gone through two PP for the A2A Heat pump. I did not have noise assessments for the smaller units and had submitted a retrospective application. I think you need - a site plan(showing where the units will be), a block plan, the elevation of the house, and all details of the unit.   I did the noise assessment for the larger unit(full planning permission).  I live next to a busy road and a railway line   

What was the dB value of the heat pump?  I am surprised that the computed value of 45.5dB at 12m. 
Mine had a dB of 55 at 1 m and 6m(closest neighbour), dropping to 39; an additional 5dB was added for tone and intermittency, bringing it to 44.  This value was considerably lower than the background noise of 55 dB.  

You have two options if the dB value is above your ambient noise level. 

1. Find an alternate unit which has lower noise - there is wide variability between manufacturers.  
2. Noise enclosures for the outdoor units (similar to the ones for Aircon units in some industrial premises)

This is daft legislation and should be overhauled.  

PS: My council is South Cambridgeshire DC

matt_drummer

Thank you for the suggestion.

The MCS noise calculation is based on some fixed numbers.

You must use the manufacturers quoted maximum noise level, which in my case is 62db. You must also use a fixed background noise level of 40db.

I can deduct 23db from my heat pump noise based on the distance from the heat pump to the neighbours window and the fact that I have three reflective surfaces within 1 metre of the heat pump.

That gets me to 39db.

You the take the higher of the two numbers, in my case 40db and apply an adjustment based on the difference between 39db and 40db, that is 1db and I must apply an adjustment of 2.50db to the 40db, that gets me to 42.50db.

The limit for not requiring planning permission under MCS rules is 42db so I fail by 0.50db.

I must get planning permission for that heat pump.

A heat pump with a noise level of 60db or less would get me under the limit.

Unfortunately, Octopus Energy have no alternative heat pumps.

So it's planning permission or a different installer that offer a quieter heat pump.

matt_drummer

ispookie666 said:

@MultiFuelBurner Any heat pump which can cool does not have permitted development rights, aka, you need PP. The exemption is only for Heat pumps which can heat.  Unfortunately, these are the rules; councils are hit-and-miss. 

@mattdrummer
I have gone through PP for my A2A heat pumps.  If it's noise related, you might need a Noise assessment.  This cost me around 1000, add the PP cost of 250 and a few hours to do the drawings and applications, and all in all, it cost me 1500.  For full disclosure, I have gone through two PP for the A2A Heat pump. I did not have noise assessments for the smaller units and had submitted a retrospective application. I think you need - a site plan(showing where the units will be), a block plan, the elevation of the house, and all details of the unit.   I did the noise assessment for the larger unit(full planning permission).  I live next to a busy road and a railway line   

What was the dB value of the heat pump?  I am surprised that the computed value of 45.5dB at 12m. 
Mine had a dB of 55 at 1 m and 6m(closest neighbour), dropping to 39; an additional 5dB was added for tone and intermittency, bringing it to 44.  This value was considerably lower than the background noise of 55 dB.  

You have two options if the dB value is above your ambient noise level. 

1. Find an alternate unit which has lower noise - there is wide variability between manufacturers.  
2. Noise enclosures for the outdoor units (similar to the ones for Aircon units in some industrial premises)

This is daft legislation and should be overhauled.  

PS: My council is South Cambridgeshire DC

Hi,

I hoped you would reply, I know you have been through this.

I have just posted a full(ish) explanation of how I fail the MCS noise test by 0.50db.

I don't live on a mansion but my house isn't that close to the neighbours, I struggle to see how many people will be able to have heat pumps.

The wording on cooling is strange, it says must be used for heating only, it's ambiguous, even if a unit is capable of cooling, if you only use it for heating is it a permitted development?

What is a block plan?

ispookie666

@matt_drummer
I would look at another manufacturer.  62dB is pretty insane!