Main wage earner, now partner says he is free to take money from joint account at will

krissy08

Hello all,
I hope I can get some advice.
I have been the main wage earner for about 20 years and I have pretty much worked all through. My partner has also worked but not steadily with the wages split never more than 80% to 20%) as he is on a much lower wage. More recently, he has been assisting me with my work as best he can. He is very hands on at home and cooks, cleans and looked after the kids in equal measure

We have a joint account and we both use it freely but would usually tell each other if a big purchase is planned. I should point out, we are both responsible and the relationship has worked quite well except some instances in the past where he has taken quite a large sum approx 600 and made a purchase with me none the wiser.
He has recently been diagnosed with a medical condition that means his earning potential is not likely to increase as we grow older . During a recent argument -(I have observed that he (my opinion) hides purchases and monetary gifts given to his side of the family. I have observed this over many years and initially assumed it was a cultural or personal vulnerability issue due to my earnings. However I have observed this is now a distinct confirmed pattern.
On raising this issue with him in a heated argument- he shouted at the top off his voice that he is over 50 and does not need to ask permission before giving his family money or spending on them.

I am conflicted as although I understand where he is coming from, I feel like I am being used when I see purchases I don't recognise, often for item values, I don't tend to give my family ( he would not stop me if I wanted to). I do not think allowing this situation to carry on bodes well for the relationship and I don't see a place where I`would be ok with it. 
Advice please- am I in the wrong~?

Sea_Shell

Ideally you should be able to agree a budget or limit for gifts as a couple, regardless of who earned the money.

He shouldn't just be "helping himself" to your joint money.

But there isn't a right and wrong here IMO.   

But if you feel strongly, have your wages paid into a sole account, and just pay your share of bills etc into the joint account.

Spendless

Legally can he take what he wishes from a joint account - yes, it's a joint account either party can take what they wish from it.

Morally - should he be taking money from the account to spend on his family how he wishes if you aren't comfortable with this -no.

I think you are seeing the household income in differing ways. You see if as yours and his minus the bills, then anything else should be up for joint discussion unless a small amount of personal spends.

He sees it as either of you can take out what they wish to spend on whatever they like

Add to this he hides some of his purchases to them.

Something perhaps worth investigating is, my Mum once stumbled that my Dad had been doing the same thing, withdrawing a set amount in cash at the same time every month. Mum read the bank statement when usually she didn't and it had been going on for more than a year. Dad then confessed that since my Grandad had died, my Nan had been struggling to pay the mortgage, that's what the payments for. Long story short - my parents then bought Nan's house from her and she lives there at a peppercorn rent to this day. That might be an angle worth looking at, is he helping a family member due to financial problems, because if there is there might be a better way of resolving it.

Easily remedied if you aren't happy and he intends to continue, open up a sole account and have your wages paid into that. Then decide how you will pay your share of bills, either a set amount going in just for household bills into the joint account, split who pays which bill and that goes out from their own wages and bank account or set up another account just for the bills.

rach_k

Buying gifts is tricky when you aren't the one earning the money!  I'm on the other side of this, with my husband being the earner.  On one side, I don't think the non- or lower earner should have to justify whatever they spend (assuming they're making some contribution other than financial), but also they shouldn't be blowing through money like it was easy to earn if they're not really involved in that.  

We solve it by having a joint account which he pays money into each month for the things that are my responsibility (mostly house and kids' stuff) but also having personal accounts.  He keeps money in his personal account and he also pays money into  my account for me to use on whatever I want (gifts, clothes, personal stuff like haircuts, travel).  We update the amounts quite regularly to account for changes in our lives.

If your partner doesn't want a personal account and just wants to spend from the joint account that's fine, but I wouldn't see anything wrong with you holding back some money in a personal account.  I would do some sums and work out how much to pay in to cover essentials and things you both like to have, then an additional amount that you're happy for him to spend on whatever without having to discuss it.  I don't think the amount you keep for yourself needs to be the same as what you put for him to spend.  If he doesn't like the amount, he will have to get over 'being 50 and not needing to ask permission' enough to have a calm discussion.  If not, he can like it or lump it.  

L9XSS

Take action, move a certain % to your own personal account, leave enough for household bills etc. Be firm. Too many freeloaders taking advantage, sounds like you have put up with a lot for a long time, turn the argument on its head and take back some justified control.

bouicca21

When I was still married I was in an identical situation, except that at first he earned more and it was only later that I did.  Also I budgeted and he didn’t.  Once I started earning substantially more than he did, he resented it. Maybe OP’s partner does too.  For all they say they don’t believe in stereotypes about being the breadwinner, a lot of men really do.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say I resented his spending but it did grate a little, especially in the early years when I was counting every penny to keep us solvent and spending very little on myself.  But I could justify in terms of him looking smart for work and having hobbies that kept him happy.  However towards the end of our marriage he spent a lot on something he kept quiet about and that was totally unnecessary and I resent that even now, after we have been separated for a decade.

So I think OP needs to think hard about their budget and have the conversation but also about whose money it is.  Does it matter that one earns more than the other - who does it matter to? Is it not joint money? Doesn’t he earn a right to spend it on things he wants by virtue of the effort he puts into being a househusband?

Retireinten

To be honest, I wouldn't be happy. If you share finances then you need to be transparent with your spends. Big spends should be agreed as a couple and how and who funds them should also be agreed.

I am the main earner but the gap has closed somewhat (let's say 60/40) although his net pay is much lower due to big pension contributions. He is also the big spender of the two of us (and I do mean big).  Add in the fact that I am pretty much burnt out at work after years of juggling a high pressured job  with the bulk of the housework and childcare falling to me....I know I need to slow down.  Resentment did really start building for me a couple of years ago to the point where I had to come up with a plan to address it.  He wanted a weekend car (I really didn't, so as far as I'm concerned this is his spend). We set a budget of £14k, he spent £23k, add in the running costs and it is not a cheap purchase at all.

I am looking to retire early in about five years and he is keen to do the same. I may carry on working part time but this is my plan to escape the daily work grind.  The car was the tipping point for me.  If he wants to make such big spends then he should not expect me to work longer to pay for them. So we have an agreement - I retire on a set date and he continues to work to pay for his wants.  He's added about a year to his retirement so far and he now has to decide whether his wants are worth the extra work he needs to do to pay for them.

Your circumstances are different though. This is spend on big ticket item 'wants' and I don't feel guilty about asking him to fund them.

I would sit down with your husband to look at your household budget and document all the money in and out.  He needs to be honest about his family gifts because you are essentially funding these. I know this can all be a bit contentious, you are a team but that only works if you are both contributing fairly and it sounds all a bit one sided to me, with the bulk of the 'adulting' falling to you. Any regular discretionary financial commitments create a pressure on YOU to keep earning to pay for them, so you have every right to understand why he needs to financially support his wider family and decide whether this is something you are prepared to do.

If you cannot agree a way forward, one option could be to separate finances. You both cover a portion of household bills and agree an amount for personal spends. If he then decides to gift from his personal spends its his choice, but he has to budget for this from his own money. Ultimately you will still be funding the majority of the household costs but it should at least be contained.

mark5

Retireinten said:

To be honest, I wouldn't be happy. If you share finances then you need to be transparent with your spends. Big spends should be agreed as a couple and how and who funds them should also be agreed.

I am the main earner but the gap has closed somewhat (let's say 60/40) although his net pay is much lower due to big pension contributions. He is also the big spender of the two of us (and I do mean big).  Add in the fact that I am pretty much burnt out at work after years of juggling a high pressured job  with the bulk of the housework and childcare falling to me....I know I need to slow down.  Resentment did really start building for me a couple of years ago to the point where I had to come up with a plan to address it.  He wanted a weekend car (I really didn't, so as far as I'm concerned this is his spend). We set a budget of £14k, he spent £23k, add in the running costs and it is not a cheap purchase at all.

I am looking to retire early in about five years and he is keen to do the same. I may carry on working part time but this is my plan to escape the daily work grind.  The car was the tipping point for me.  If he wants to make such big spends then he should not expect me to work longer to pay for them. So we have an agreement - I retire on a set date and he continues to work to pay for his wants.  He's added about a year to his retirement so far and he now has to decide whether his wants are worth the extra work he needs to do to pay for them.

Your circumstances are different though. This is spend on big ticket item 'wants' and I don't feel guilty about asking him to fund them.

I would sit down with your husband to look at your household budget and document all the money in and out.  He needs to be honest about his family gifts because you are essentially funding these. I know this can all be a bit contentious, you are a team but that only works if you are both contributing fairly and it sounds all a bit one sided to me, with the bulk of the 'adulting' falling to you. Any regular discretionary financial commitments create a pressure on YOU to keep earning to pay for them, so you have every right to understand why he needs to financially support his wider family and decide whether this is something you are prepared to do.

If you cannot agree a way forward, one option could be to separate finances. You both cover a portion of household bills and agree an amount for personal spends. If he then decides to gift from his personal spends its his choice, but he has to budget for this from his own money. Ultimately you will still be funding the majority of the household costs but it should at least be contained.

I agree with the last paragraph above.

london21

Joint account is ok for bills and joint expenses but think you will both benefit from having separate accounts.

If his income is low you can give some monthly amount you are comfortable with and keep your income in your own individual account. 

Finance, trust and communication are all essential areas that cannot be ignored for a successful relationship. 

Mojisola

Would you be happy with all income going into a joint account, making sure there is enough to cover the regular bills and other agreed spending (and no money taken out for other things), transfer an agreed amount into savings and then each have an equal amount paid into individual accounts to be spent on whatever the account owner wants (or saved).

Rob5342

If you are going to have a joint account then you do need to have an understanding about how the money is spent. You don't necessarily have to agree every single purchase you make but there should be some notion of equality between you. My wife and I always treat our families the same, spending roughly the same amounts on presents. We might give more to one person if they were struggling for some reason, but we'd always discuss it first and do it on the understanding that we'd do the same for any other family member in the same situation.

The arrangement needs to work for you so change it if it doesn't. It would be perfectly acceptable for you to say that you are happy for your salary to be used to give to all family members equally, but that if he wants to give more to his then he has to compromise somewhere else.