UK CPM - new infestation on private estate

Umkomaas

Is it different if the car is leased? Looking online it says finance provider is registered keeper and owner with leases and would get sent any fines etc. Does that mean potentially their fines are still finding their way from the finance company to them?

Quite possibly given there is another party involved. PPCs have 6 months to access keeper data from the DVLA, then a further month to serve the NtK. 

_IH8_UKCPM_

Ah ok. Ours were "issued" two days after the "offence" and posted and arrived about 5 days after the "issued" date so took 7 days after the alleged "offence" to get NTK in the post (if I understand correctly where no physical ticket is issued the first letter serves as the NTK?) If they are being ticketed and if there is a delay perhaps because the car is leased then they could potentially be facing thousands in fines as they haven't been adhering to the rules since enforcement came in. They said they didn't even know what the rules were unfortunately.

Fruitcake

I don't know if it applies to your site, but a ballot in accordance with the Landlord and Tenant Act must include all landlords as well as tenants. This means people who have bought a property to rent out in order to receive an income must also be balloted, even if they do not live in the property.

_IH8_UKCPM_

Thanks. I certainly don't believe that to be the case as we have been sent no letters or emails etc by the MA regarding if we want parking enforcement, who would do it, what the rules would be etc. As I think I said earlier in the thread it seems everyone had a letter from MA requesting our vehicle numberplates in Dec last year. I questioned what value a permit system or some sort of register of residents numberplates would provide us as no one else ever tried parking in our space or the bit infront of our house where we parked the other car. The MA reponse was "we aren't implementing it anymore at the moment".

Next correspondence about parking was a letter directly from UKCPM 2 months ago stating they were due to begin enforcement on X date with one rule (not the three rules they have on their enforcement signs up on the estate). I guess it could be argued that without confirmation from our MA of incoming parking restrictions one might question the authenticity and veracity of the letter from UKCPM considering they are of questionable integrity.

_IH8_UKCPM_

Just checking documents from when we purchased.

Deed of covenant says:

(1) In this Deed unless the context so admits the definitions interpretations agreements

and declarations contained in the First Transfer shall (mutatis mutandis) apply hereto

as though they were set out in full in this Deed.

(2) The New Owner hereby covenants with the Manager that as from the date of the

Transfer to the New Owner of the Property the New Owner will pay the Owners

Proportion and observe and perform the covenants and conditions on the part of the

First Owner contained in the First Transfer.

Am I understanding correctly this means the same conditions apply that were set out in the TP1 document that the first owners of the property signed? I have a copy of this and mentioned before that only relevant condition on parking I could see was

not to - "permit any vehicles of any description or any articles to park on or obstruct any part of the Maintained Area nor at any time to obstruct or deposit any matter or thing of whatsoever nature thereon"

Is this likely to hurt our case or does the fact the enforcement was not implemented following correct process trump this and mean UKCPM should never have been there issuing tickets in the first place?

Fruitcake

It helps your case because of what it doesn't say.

There is no mention of parking enforcement, PPCs, permits, PCNs, paying a PPC, or court. Indeed, it makes no mention of having to pay anyone anything if a resident fails to comply with the deed of covenant. 

_IH8_UKCPM_

Great, just what I wanted to hear.

Thanks again guys for the amazing work you do and apologies for the repeated questions. As I sure you guys know it is very stressful. This is our first home and we have saved for best part of a decade to afford this. I hope it doesn't turn into a nightmare.

Coupon-mad

Add this to your letter to the MA, to sum up how this is affecting you personally:

"it is very stressful. This is our first home and we have saved for best part of a decade to afford this. I hope it doesn't turn into a nightmare."

Make no mistake, estates blighted by aggressive PPCs can become a no-go area for delivery couriers and taxis (as well as your own visitors) and house prices can be affected.  Kick them out!

_IH8_UKCPM_

Thanks. I have been chasing up the MA every day. Carrying on writing letter to MP today. Unfortunately we have COVID and I have chronic health conditions which has made it a struggle but I have been dedicating all my energy in to fighting this. I am still trying to get as much info as I can on how enforcement came to be implemented as well as my neighbours I have spoken to so far all seem to have had different experiences or heard different things. Letter to neighbours ready to go just trying to get final bits of info and then once I am well enough get out and print and deliver it to neighbours.

One other thing I wanted to check, I am still yet to appeal the PCNs with UKCPM directly as I wasn't sure what to do in that regard. Should I appeal with the generic template refuting the ticket and perhaps mention the enforcement has been brought in without following due process and contrary to various laws?

Or is it best not to engage with them at all as the prevailing stance seems to be their introduction to the estate was not handled properly and therefore they have no right to issue us tickets?

Thanks!

Fruitcake

Appeal the PCNs using the template but add that your lease/deeds etcetera give you primacy of contract over anything an unregulated private parking company who were not a party to your residential contract says. Tell them in no uncertain terms that as a property owner you never agreed to any form of third-party parking management as is your right, and you categorically do not agree to abide by any such scheme and reject entirely any requirement to display a permit or comply with made up terms on irrelevant tinware on the site.


I suggest you also contact the local council planning department to see if advertising consent was ever approved for the signs in accordance with 
The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007 (legislation.gov.uk)

Not having it not only breaches para 12 of the PoFA, but it is also a criminal offence (but only the council can pursue it). If there is no such consent then complain to the council telling them there was never any consultation with residents, nor a ballot in accordance with the L & T Act.