Just had a service and MOT...now engine seized!

rachellelouise

cymruchris said:

rachellelouise said:

cymruchris said:

OP - do you actually have your original instruction manual/service book in the car? If so - can you check whether anywhere on any page there's a recommended schedule for your timing belt on your own paperwork/manuals rather than relying on the internet? (It may be in the glove box of the car in the workshop of course!)

Yup…in the glove box!

But this website also confirms 112K as the garage put on the MOT advisory:

https://www.grange.co.uk/technical-data/peugeot/308/1.6-bluehdi-120-active-5dr-(2014-2017)

See if you can get access to your own ACTUAL books - it'd be better for your argument (if it comes to that) to have the knowledge that you've also got it in writing. 

cymruchris said:

rachellelouise said:

cymruchris said:

OP - do you actually have your original instruction manual/service book in the car? If so - can you check whether anywhere on any page there's a recommended schedule for your timing belt on your own paperwork/manuals rather than relying on the internet? (It may be in the glove box of the car in the workshop of course!)

Yup…in the glove box!

But this website also confirms 112K as the garage put on the MOT advisory:

https://www.grange.co.uk/technical-data/peugeot/308/1.6-bluehdi-120-active-5dr-(2014-2017)

See if you can get access to your own ACTUAL books - it'd be better for your argument (if it comes to that) to have the knowledge that you've also got it in writing. 

Thank you - Will do definitely as you are right, being able to hold it and show them carries much more weight! 

rachellelouise

Very grateful for everyones advice on here.
Clearly lots of people with a lot of knowledge, far more than I have about cars!! 

cymruchris

SergeantBaker said:

cymruchris said:

SergeantBaker said:

cymruchris said:

SergeantBaker said:

cymruchris said:

diystarter7 said:

cymruchris said:

SergeantBaker said:

cymruchris said:

Deleted_User said:

rachellelouise said:

Deleted_User said:

If all of this was knackered and the driver didn't notice I don't expect they would notice a loss of coolant or other symptoms that lead to the catastrophic failure.



All of the above would have presented obvious symptoms when driving the car if they were beyond passing an MOT - knocking/grinding/wallowing/poor handling etc.

There was no noise or grinding or poor handling - whilst we have no car knowlege, my husband drives ambulances for a living and would notice if there was a problem driving with the car

If link bars are shot, MOT will pick up play in them which manifests as a knocking sound when driving over bumps.

Top mounts, should probably be replaced as routine when doing the springs/shocks so accept maybe no grinding but why spend £120 on them as "good practice" and not do the shocks as a pair which is also good practice and more important for handling and braking?

Springs, ok could be corroded but fully functional and the shock absorber leaking but still working, yes can give the benefit of the doubt.

1 shock absorber but not 2? I would not accept that, should always be changed as a pair.

Parts, you were massively overcharged and should have queried them:

Top mount £44 not £72
Shock £76 not £108
Front pads £40 not £58
Front discs £33 not £62 each
Links £13 not £41
Rear disk £38 not £60

That's £300 overcharged at retail prices, garages can source all these parts cheaper than I can.

That's you buying over the counter though - and although the garage would get a discount on the parts when buying - they would also apply a margin to them as part of their business model. It's the same with all centres of this ilk. You don't only pay for labour, you pay a profit margin on parts too. This is one of the reasons most big shed garages won't fit customers parts as they don't make a profit on them. Most people tend to think they're only paying the labour - and that the workshop is providing the parts at the prices they paid for them, which is sadly not the case.

The advantage of going to the big shed though is that it's easier to prove you've been servicing it regularly with half decent parts. As the OP may now get into negotiation with Peugeot over what can be done (if anything) - a good service record from a decent non-dealer outlet can be beneficial. Yes I know old Brian down at the 'Arches' does a decent job for less, but using one of these big sheds might sway the balance when it comes to getting any redress on this. 

I'd be interested to know where the Peugeot customer service rep got a schedule of 60k for the timing belt though - considering it's widely available across the internet at 100k+ miles and 10 years - no mention of 60k that I can see.

To the OP - if it was 60k miles (And I don't think it is) - did you have the car at that point in its history?

Has the OP got this? We've only seen one service.

Yes - they said earlier it had been serviced regularly/annually and all the stamps in the book present. 

ymruchris

I must say, you do have a way with words. Excellent posts and every single word you have posted is good stuff and helpful reading to the OP. Your posts are well-balanced.

Thank you for helping the OP and making this an enjoyable read and i turn help the OP


Thanks

To be fair there are some very knowledgeable people responding on the thread besides me - I've worked in a retail garage environment for several years, and as a garage manager for a period, I know my wheel bearings from my track rod ends, but I've never been a mechanic. There have been some good points and challenges made through the discussion, and I'm hoping the OP will be able to make progress in lodging some kind of action with Peugeot directly. I know nothing is guaranteed - but if we can pull together as much info as possible - the OP has at least some chance of making some progress, and who knows maybe a contribution to repair (or even more!) 

I think if there's:

- A full service history showing that until now everything has been replaced when required
- The car is MOT'd
- The schedule for the timing belt is 112k miles/10 years (or thereabouts)
- A report from the current workshop stating what's likely to be wrong following inspection

I do think the OP would have the potential to make a successful claim for recompense. 

The MOT history doesn't support that. 

If the service is done at the same time as the MOT each year (that I think the OP mentioned) then it would support it - at the previous MOT - the car would be serviced to spec and any parts worn replaced - and then repeated the next year. Some things that get worn between MOT's and services don't quite get worn enough that as a driver we notice them, but to MOT standard they're failures or strong advisory's. I wouldn't see an issue with there being an annual service and MOT - and a number of items being replaced through wear and tear not being an example of a full service history. 

Ok, I bow to your superiors knowledge. How would Peugeot view presenting a car for MOT with wheel fixings missing from two wheels?

Tyres are run until they're worn out and pressures not checked.  This years test clearly needed a lot of work. The history suggests someone running a car and relying on the annual service or mot to spot any maintenance issues. 

A lot of the faults could maybe be discovered by regular maintenance checks not once a year jobs.  

Definitely not 'Superior knowledge' - just experience of having worked in a big shed garage environment for a while, and trying to help the OP put together the best possible case for getting at least a contribution from Peugeot - if it is the timing belt that's snapped, and not another cause. (We actually don't yet know for sure - but from what's been said it's likely). I can't see the MOT history as the reg number is no longer on the thread.

But if you serviced your car annually, gave it a visual check over every couple of months as a regular member of the public, taking it to the garage if it made any weird noises or bangs, I'd be confident that you'd be classed as 'looking after your car and keeping the service history up-to-date' if ever anything was presented to a judge.

If something was indeed missing (and I'm not disputing that if it said it on the MOT) it could have fallen off (whatever it was) a day after the last MOT or the day before the new MOT, or anytime in between. (It was obviously there at the prior MOT whatever it was).

Of course some people will say 'well that probably fell off months ago and you should have noticed' - maybe it did - but maybe it only fell off yesterday. You couldn't prove it one way or the other, but what the OP can prove is that the car was maintained to schedule at appropriate times.

cymruchris said:

SergeantBaker said:

cymruchris said:

SergeantBaker said:

cymruchris said:

diystarter7 said:

cymruchris said:

SergeantBaker said:

cymruchris said:

Deleted_User said:

rachellelouise said:

Deleted_User said:

If all of this was knackered and the driver didn't notice I don't expect they would notice a loss of coolant or other symptoms that lead to the catastrophic failure.



All of the above would have presented obvious symptoms when driving the car if they were beyond passing an MOT - knocking/grinding/wallowing/poor handling etc.

There was no noise or grinding or poor handling - whilst we have no car knowlege, my husband drives ambulances for a living and would notice if there was a problem driving with the car

If link bars are shot, MOT will pick up play in them which manifests as a knocking sound when driving over bumps.

Top mounts, should probably be replaced as routine when doing the springs/shocks so accept maybe no grinding but why spend £120 on them as "good practice" and not do the shocks as a pair which is also good practice and more important for handling and braking?

Springs, ok could be corroded but fully functional and the shock absorber leaking but still working, yes can give the benefit of the doubt.

1 shock absorber but not 2? I would not accept that, should always be changed as a pair.

Parts, you were massively overcharged and should have queried them:

Top mount £44 not £72
Shock £76 not £108
Front pads £40 not £58
Front discs £33 not £62 each
Links £13 not £41
Rear disk £38 not £60

That's £300 overcharged at retail prices, garages can source all these parts cheaper than I can.

That's you buying over the counter though - and although the garage would get a discount on the parts when buying - they would also apply a margin to them as part of their business model. It's the same with all centres of this ilk. You don't only pay for labour, you pay a profit margin on parts too. This is one of the reasons most big shed garages won't fit customers parts as they don't make a profit on them. Most people tend to think they're only paying the labour - and that the workshop is providing the parts at the prices they paid for them, which is sadly not the case.

The advantage of going to the big shed though is that it's easier to prove you've been servicing it regularly with half decent parts. As the OP may now get into negotiation with Peugeot over what can be done (if anything) - a good service record from a decent non-dealer outlet can be beneficial. Yes I know old Brian down at the 'Arches' does a decent job for less, but using one of these big sheds might sway the balance when it comes to getting any redress on this. 

I'd be interested to know where the Peugeot customer service rep got a schedule of 60k for the timing belt though - considering it's widely available across the internet at 100k+ miles and 10 years - no mention of 60k that I can see.

To the OP - if it was 60k miles (And I don't think it is) - did you have the car at that point in its history?

Has the OP got this? We've only seen one service.

Yes - they said earlier it had been serviced regularly/annually and all the stamps in the book present. 

ymruchris

I must say, you do have a way with words. Excellent posts and every single word you have posted is good stuff and helpful reading to the OP. Your posts are well-balanced.

Thank you for helping the OP and making this an enjoyable read and i turn help the OP


Thanks

To be fair there are some very knowledgeable people responding on the thread besides me - I've worked in a retail garage environment for several years, and as a garage manager for a period, I know my wheel bearings from my track rod ends, but I've never been a mechanic. There have been some good points and challenges made through the discussion, and I'm hoping the OP will be able to make progress in lodging some kind of action with Peugeot directly. I know nothing is guaranteed - but if we can pull together as much info as possible - the OP has at least some chance of making some progress, and who knows maybe a contribution to repair (or even more!) 

I think if there's:

- A full service history showing that until now everything has been replaced when required
- The car is MOT'd
- The schedule for the timing belt is 112k miles/10 years (or thereabouts)
- A report from the current workshop stating what's likely to be wrong following inspection

I do think the OP would have the potential to make a successful claim for recompense. 

The MOT history doesn't support that. 

If the service is done at the same time as the MOT each year (that I think the OP mentioned) then it would support it - at the previous MOT - the car would be serviced to spec and any parts worn replaced - and then repeated the next year. Some things that get worn between MOT's and services don't quite get worn enough that as a driver we notice them, but to MOT standard they're failures or strong advisory's. I wouldn't see an issue with there being an annual service and MOT - and a number of items being replaced through wear and tear not being an example of a full service history. 

Ok, I bow to your superiors knowledge. How would Peugeot view presenting a car for MOT with wheel fixings missing from two wheels?

Tyres are run until they're worn out and pressures not checked.  This years test clearly needed a lot of work. The history suggests someone running a car and relying on the annual service or mot to spot any maintenance issues. 

A lot of the faults could maybe be discovered by regular maintenance checks not once a year jobs.  

Definitely not 'Superior knowledge' - just experience of having worked in a big shed garage environment for a while, and trying to help the OP put together the best possible case for getting at least a contribution from Peugeot - if it is the timing belt that's snapped, and not another cause. (We actually don't yet know for sure - but from what's been said it's likely). I can't see the MOT history as the reg number is no longer on the thread.

But if you serviced your car annually, gave it a visual check over every couple of months as a regular member of the public, taking it to the garage if it made any weird noises or bangs, I'd be confident that you'd be classed as 'looking after your car and keeping the service history up-to-date' if ever anything was presented to a judge.

If something was indeed missing (and I'm not disputing that if it said it on the MOT) it could have fallen off (whatever it was) a day after the last MOT or the day before the new MOT, or anytime in between. (It was obviously there at the prior MOT whatever it was).

Of course some people will say 'well that probably fell off months ago and you should have noticed' - maybe it did - but maybe it only fell off yesterday. You couldn't prove it one way or the other, but what the OP can prove is that the car was maintained to schedule at appropriate times.

I've never has a wheel fixing fall off at any time yet alone two. 

It's definitely not common - but not every problem on a car is.... Some things happen to thousands and thousands of people (flat tyres) some things happen to a handful out of a million (airbags deploying without an impact, mirror glasses falling out, number plates cracking) - having not seen the MOT history, having not seen the car, not knowing which part exactly was 'missing', whether the car had had a wheel changed through puncture in the months previous, and things like that - it's not something we can say is black and white. It would be on the balance of probability whether it was a fault of the car, the maintenance or the OP. If there's written evidence that the timing belt should be changed at 112k or 10 years, and the car has only done 96k with annual services logged - that's different - that's black and white. 

sevenhills

SergeantBaker said:

cymruchris said:

SergeantBaker said:

cymruchris said:

diystarter7 said:

cymruchris said:

SergeantBaker said:

cymruchris said:

Deleted_User said:

rachellelouise said:

Deleted_User said:

If all of this was knackered and the driver didn't notice I don't expect they would notice a loss of coolant or other symptoms that lead to the catastrophic failure.



All of the above would have presented obvious symptoms when driving the car if they were beyond passing an MOT - knocking/grinding/wallowing/poor handling etc.

There was no noise or grinding or poor handling - whilst we have no car knowlege, my husband drives ambulances for a living and would notice if there was a problem driving with the car

If link bars are shot, MOT will pick up play in them which manifests as a knocking sound when driving over bumps.

Top mounts, should probably be replaced as routine when doing the springs/shocks so accept maybe no grinding but why spend £120 on them as "good practice" and not do the shocks as a pair which is also good practice and more important for handling and braking?

Springs, ok could be corroded but fully functional and the shock absorber leaking but still working, yes can give the benefit of the doubt.

1 shock absorber but not 2? I would not accept that, should always be changed as a pair.

Parts, you were massively overcharged and should have queried them:

Top mount £44 not £72
Shock £76 not £108
Front pads £40 not £58
Front discs £33 not £62 each
Links £13 not £41
Rear disk £38 not £60

That's £300 overcharged at retail prices, garages can source all these parts cheaper than I can.

That's you buying over the counter though - and although the garage would get a discount on the parts when buying - they would also apply a margin to them as part of their business model. It's the same with all centres of this ilk. You don't only pay for labour, you pay a profit margin on parts too. This is one of the reasons most big shed garages won't fit customers parts as they don't make a profit on them. Most people tend to think they're only paying the labour - and that the workshop is providing the parts at the prices they paid for them, which is sadly not the case.

The advantage of going to the big shed though is that it's easier to prove you've been servicing it regularly with half decent parts. As the OP may now get into negotiation with Peugeot over what can be done (if anything) - a good service record from a decent non-dealer outlet can be beneficial. Yes I know old Brian down at the 'Arches' does a decent job for less, but using one of these big sheds might sway the balance when it comes to getting any redress on this. 

I'd be interested to know where the Peugeot customer service rep got a schedule of 60k for the timing belt though - considering it's widely available across the internet at 100k+ miles and 10 years - no mention of 60k that I can see.

To the OP - if it was 60k miles (And I don't think it is) - did you have the car at that point in its history?

Has the OP got this? We've only seen one service.

Yes - they said earlier it had been serviced regularly/annually and all the stamps in the book present. 

ymruchris

I must say, you do have a way with words. Excellent posts and every single word you have posted is good stuff and helpful reading to the OP. Your posts are well-balanced.

Thank you for helping the OP and making this an enjoyable read and i turn help the OP


Thanks

To be fair there are some very knowledgeable people responding on the thread besides me - I've worked in a retail garage environment for several years, and as a garage manager for a period, I know my wheel bearings from my track rod ends, but I've never been a mechanic. There have been some good points and challenges made through the discussion, and I'm hoping the OP will be able to make progress in lodging some kind of action with Peugeot directly. I know nothing is guaranteed - but if we can pull together as much info as possible - the OP has at least some chance of making some progress, and who knows maybe a contribution to repair (or even more!) 

I think if there's:

- A full service history showing that until now everything has been replaced when required
- The car is MOT'd
- The schedule for the timing belt is 112k miles/10 years (or thereabouts)
- A report from the current workshop stating what's likely to be wrong following inspection

I do think the OP would have the potential to make a successful claim for recompense. 

The MOT history doesn't support that. 

If the service is done at the same time as the MOT each year (that I think the OP mentioned) then it would support it - at the previous MOT - the car would be serviced to spec and any parts worn replaced - and then repeated the next year. Some things that get worn between MOT's and services don't quite get worn enough that as a driver we notice them, but to MOT standard they're failures or strong advisory's. I wouldn't see an issue with there being an annual service and MOT - and a number of items being replaced through wear and tear not being an example of a full service history. 

Ok, I bow to your superiors knowledge. How would Peugeot view presenting a car for MOT with wheel fixings missing from two wheels?

Tyres are run until they're worn out and pressures not checked.  This years test clearly needed a lot of work. The history suggests someone running a car and relying on the annual service or mot to spot any maintenance issues. 

A lot of the faults could maybe be discovered by regular maintenance checks not once a year jobs.  

Or a garage doing more work than was really needed because the OP knows nothing about mechanics?

chrisw

I had a cam belt fail prematurely and out of warranty on a Peugeot 406 so it was quite a while ago now. 

However, Peugeot paid for a replacement engine without quibble. Hope they do the same for you.

rachellelouise

chrisw said:

I had a cam belt fail prematurely and out of warranty on a Peugeot 406 so it was quite a while ago now. 

However, Peugeot paid for a replacement engine without quibble. Hope they do the same for you.

This is interesting to hear - Thanks!
How many miles/years old was your vehicle, in comparison to the recommended timescale for changing it?

I hope they do for us too!!

Mutton_Geoff

This cambelt discussion is still a tangent because the OP's original post only mentioned loss of coolant. Still waiting for the report on cause of engine failure.

I did mention this earlier but somebody had my post pulled 

diystarter7

rachellelouise said:

chrisw said:

I had a cam belt fail prematurely and out of warranty on a Peugeot 406 so it was quite a while ago now. 

However, Peugeot paid for a replacement engine without quibble. Hope they do the same for you.

This is interesting to hear - Thanks!
How many miles/years old was your vehicle, in comparison to the recommended timescale for changing it?

I hope they do for us too!!

Hi OP

I think you need to post the users name and the symbol '@' proceeding the name, Otherwise, he/she won't get an alert.

FYI, I'm pretty confident it is not the t/chain

chrisw

rachellelouise said:

chrisw said:

I had a cam belt fail prematurely and out of warranty on a Peugeot 406 so it was quite a while ago now. 

However, Peugeot paid for a replacement engine without quibble. Hope they do the same for you.

This is interesting to hear - Thanks!
How many miles/years old was your vehicle, in comparison to the recommended timescale for changing it?

I hope they do for us too!!

The car was 4 years old but only 30,000 miles. Warranty was only 1 year in those days. I don't remember the schedule I'm afraid.

diystarter7

chrisw said:

rachellelouise said:

chrisw said:

I had a cam belt fail prematurely and out of warranty on a Peugeot 406 so it was quite a while ago now. 

However, Peugeot paid for a replacement engine without quibble. Hope they do the same for you.

This is interesting to hear - Thanks!
How many miles/years old was your vehicle, in comparison to the recommended timescale for changing it?

I hope they do for us too!!

The car was 4 years old but only 30,000 miles. Warranty was only 1 year in those days. I don't remember the schedule I'm afraid.

It must have been a recognised design problem otherwise no business is going to throw money away like that as where does it stop.