Boundary Question about Removing my Fence.

ThisIsWeird

Section62 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

As Grubby says.

Although I applaud RS's very considerate attitude, I do think he is being 'silly' in this case, as there is a genuine known long-term security risk here, which is the care home's responsibility. But he has been advised of this a few times, and has seemingly made his choice. 

I think it is wrong to say the OP is 'silly' (even in inverted commas).

If one of the home's residents falls into and drowns in his pond, he won't be able to simply sit back and say it was the care home's responsibility to keep the residents safe.  There would almost certainly be a police investigation and the OP would have to account for his actions.  And regardless of the legalities, having someone come to harm in your garden isn't something you are likely to forget.

Whilst the ultimate responsibility is with the care home, it is sensible to take action to make sure the care home are aware of what is happening, and work with them as much as possible to make sure no problems arise.

This is what would generally be known as "being a good neighbour" - something which increasingly seen as optional by some people who seem to think only of their own rights.  I'd say good on the OP for being concerned and adopting a safety-first approach.

Absolutely. But I worry that RS has not informed the care home's head office, but has dealt only with this particular home's manager. And from what we've been told, that manager is not at all clued-up on the risks and responsibilities here.

Should a patient escape or come to harm via RS's fence, the manager of that home will, I suspect, be in an awful lot of trouble.

I think RS is wrong to have not informed the head office of this situation (if he hasn't done so). RS is an informed individual, but seems to be allowing his innate decency - his inclination to do the right thing by his responsibility for this fence - to cloud a bigger issue.

This is not at all a case of trying to 'get away' with having to put a fence up - passing the buck. But RS's fence will not be a security type.

I applaud his decency, and wish all neighbs could be like him. But, he should inform HO - he'd be 'silly' not to.

molerat

I doubt there is any necessity of informing "HO" but delivering a letter to the premises would be sufficient.  It would be up to the person responsible at the premises to contact their HO.

HampshireH

It is absolutely not the OP responsibility to be chasing around finding people to inform.

If someone is competent enough to be a manager of a care home they should be competent enough to notify the powers that be of any thing they need to know.

OP has now finished the work he has been able to do so it's by the by and all was well on the days he did the work. When he does the repairs it sounds like everyone is in the know.

Ultimately the care home is responsible for ensuring a boundary is adequate for their needs. The OP has been very considerate of their needs and gone out of his way to accommodate them.

I agree with @Section62 that should anything have happened that would be horrific for anyone and not easily forgotten.

But the OP certainly isn't responsible for notifying head office.

ThisIsWeird

Mole and Hamp, if you were in RS's situation, and you knew that there was a safety risk that the manager was not comprehending, would you just cover your own back side?

35har1old

RS2OOO said:

Hi,

I think this is an unusual situation so thought I'd ask for advice.

I'm responsible for the boundary fence dividing my garden and next door. Its a long fence, over 30 metres. Next door was built after my house, was previously public space, so my deeds contain no relevant boundary information other than depicting my ownership of the fence.

Next door is a care home with vulnerable residents. They specialise in Dementia patients. It is common for residents to try and escape by any means possible, even trying to climb over my fence.

My fence needs replacing and due to its length will likely take a number of weekends to remove and replace, leaving lengthy periods where no fence exists. (Its an old style hand-built wooden fence with Aris rails through concrete pillars, not the modern type with panels that simply slot between posts).

I approached the Care Home, but there was nobody in a position of authority and the one Nurse I spoke to seemed to think I would have to erect a temporary fence on their side prior to removing my fence. I'm pretty confident this is incorrect.

As far as my knowledge goes, I can legally remove the fence as I please, but its not very neighbourly, and certainly won't go down well if a resident falls into and drowns in my pond!

I suspect they should have to erect a temporary fence while I carry out the works, but then who knows, maybe some law somewhere requires me to take responsibility?

Could someone advise what the process should or would be in a situation like this, and whether any legal implications may apply?

Did you own the house before the care home was built ?
Or did you move to the property after the care home was built.
The deeds states that you are responsible for the boundary fence but you say you have come across old fence post and barbed wire which you think was the original fence you also think the current fence was constructed at the time of construction of the nursing home which may suggest that the nursing home could have constructed it beyond the original boundary?
The boundary on the other side  of the nursing home is it of the same construction?
It's often the case in new build that when a builder is instructed to erect a fence he stays inside the original  fence.
Does the deeds give you measurements  from house to the boundary?

elsien

If you read what you’ve just quoted the OP has already said
“Next door was built after my house, was previously public space, so my deeds contain no relevant boundary information other than depicting my ownership of the fence”

outtatune

The manager knows full well what his responsibilities are. He simply considers the OP to be a gullible mark who can be leaned on to pay some of his business' security and maintenance costs

Scorpio33

My guess it is a private care home (with the mention of "head office"), in which case, they most likely have many more resources than you for things just like this. I suspect they would be more than happy to erect a fence their side if HO was aware. 

But I do get you trying to be a good neighbour, so you are doing the correct thing "morally" (in my eyes). It will just cost you money you don't necessarily need to pay out.

RS2OOO

35har1old said:

RS2OOO said:

Hi,

I think this is an unusual situation so thought I'd ask for advice.

I'm responsible for the boundary fence dividing my garden and next door. Its a long fence, over 30 metres. Next door was built after my house, was previously public space, so my deeds contain no relevant boundary information other than depicting my ownership of the fence.

Next door is a care home with vulnerable residents. They specialise in Dementia patients. It is common for residents to try and escape by any means possible, even trying to climb over my fence.

My fence needs replacing and due to its length will likely take a number of weekends to remove and replace, leaving lengthy periods where no fence exists. (Its an old style hand-built wooden fence with Aris rails through concrete pillars, not the modern type with panels that simply slot between posts).

I approached the Care Home, but there was nobody in a position of authority and the one Nurse I spoke to seemed to think I would have to erect a temporary fence on their side prior to removing my fence. I'm pretty confident this is incorrect.

As far as my knowledge goes, I can legally remove the fence as I please, but its not very neighbourly, and certainly won't go down well if a resident falls into and drowns in my pond!

I suspect they should have to erect a temporary fence while I carry out the works, but then who knows, maybe some law somewhere requires me to take responsibility?

Could someone advise what the process should or would be in a situation like this, and whether any legal implications may apply?

Did you own the house before the care home was built ?
Or did you move to the property after the care home was built.
The deeds states that you are responsible for the boundary fence but you say you have come across old fence post and barbed wire which you think was the original fence you also think the current fence was constructed at the time of construction of the nursing home which may suggest that the nursing home could have constructed it beyond the original boundary?
The boundary on the other side  of the nursing home is it of the same construction?
It's often the case in new build that when a builder is instructed to erect a fence he stays inside the original  fence.
Does the deeds give you measurements  from house to the boundary?

I think these questions have already been answered.

My house built in 1970's, care home built late 80's and opened in '92. The land was farmland prior, which has all been developed now. I don't know when my current (old) fence was erected, but it can be seen on Google earth in 2002. Previous Google earth image of 1996 is blurry, previous to that was 1990 and a fence very similar to the current one was in place. The barbed wire fence I found semi-buried clearly pre-dates that. Previous google earth imagary is too blurry to see.

The deeds make no verbal reference to the fence at all, only the symbol on the drawing indicating it is mine (oh, and reference to a 11kv electricity cable running along the fence line and a requirement not to plant trees there, but that's another story). The deeds pre-date the carehome.

RS2OOO

Its been interesting to read the various conversations and responses to the thread.

Considering the short section I've replaced cost more than £1000 in materials and took me 5 days including painting, it would be tempting to write to head office before I replace the rest of the fence just in case they do offer to contribute to the costs.

It would be equally tempting for me to say I'm excercising my right to completely remove the fence, or replace it with a tiny picket fence, knowing they will then have to pay for a proper fence to secure their premises and I might even get a couple of extra feet of garden out of it if they erect on their side of the boundary.....

But that's not me. My real concern is genuinely the risk of one of their residents hurting themselves in my garden or falling into the pond, so having read some of the opinions here, I will indeed write to their HO next time because in hindsight had something gone wrong this time it would have been a hard pill to live with, more so considering some of the advice I already received from here.