Boundary Question about Removing my Fence.

RS2OOO

Hi,

I think this is an unusual situation so thought I'd ask for advice.

I'm responsible for the boundary fence dividing my garden and next door. Its a long fence, over 30 metres. Next door was built after my house, was previously public space, so my deeds contain no relevant boundary information other than depicting my ownership of the fence.

Next door is a care home with vulnerable residents. They specialise in Dementia patients. It is common for residents to try and escape by any means possible, even trying to climb over my fence.

My fence needs replacing and due to its length will likely take a number of weekends to remove and replace, leaving lengthy periods where no fence exists. (Its an old style hand-built wooden fence with Aris rails through concrete pillars, not the modern type with panels that simply slot between posts).

I approached the Care Home, but there was nobody in a position of authority and the one Nurse I spoke to seemed to think I would have to erect a temporary fence on their side prior to removing my fence. I'm pretty confident this is incorrect.

As far as my knowledge goes, I can legally remove the fence as I please, but its not very neighbourly, and certainly won't go down well if a resident falls into and drowns in my pond!

I suspect they should have to erect a temporary fence while I carry out the works, but then who knows, maybe some law somewhere requires me to take responsibility?

Could someone advise what the process should or would be in a situation like this, and whether any legal implications may apply?

grumbler

I'm pretty sure it's their problem to stop the residents from leaving, but can't you do this gradually by removing the old fence and installing the new one at the same time? A small gap is very easy  to take care of.

Brie

My understanding is that you are under no obligation to replace the fence with something suitable for your neighbour.  So a piece of string would be fine.  Or a hedge.  Or nothing at all.  

But as you say - you don't want to cause problems.  I think that you need to officially notify the home of your intention and how long you think it will take.  It may be in their best interest to restrict their residents to the building rather than allow them out on the lawn.  Given the time of year I doubt this would be difficult as not many people actually want to be out in the damp and cold.  And if they have dementia the likelihood is that they are more elderly and will want to be inside where it's warm.

RS2OOO

grumbler said:

I'm pretty sure it's their problem to stop the residents from leaving, but can't you do this gradually by removing the old fence and installing the new one at the same time? A small gap is very easy  to take care of.

That would be the intention, but I think an unrealistic aim as there's a surprising amount of work to do which doesn't bode well with limited daylight hours or my shift working to avoid sections being exposed for a few days at a time.

MikeJXE

Hire a few Harris fencing panels to save any problems 

silvercar

This really isn't your problem. As a courtesy, you notify in writing the home that you will be removing your fence over a number of days and therefore there will be no boundary for a few days. It would be a similar situation if next door was a private household with a toddler/ pet rabbit/ chickens etc

RS2OOO

Brie said:

My understanding is that you are under no obligation to replace the fence with something suitable for your neighbour.  So a piece of string would be fine.  Or a hedge.  Or nothing at all.  

But as you say - you don't want to cause problems.  I think that you need to officially notify the home of your intention and how long you think it will take.  It may be in their best interest to restrict their residents to the building rather than allow them out on the lawn.  Given the time of year I doubt this would be difficult as not many people actually want to be out in the damp and cold.  And if they have dementia the likelihood is that they are more elderly and will want to be inside where it's warm.

This matches my train of thought, so thanks for the confirmation.

You'd be surprised how many residents still wonder outside in the freezing cold, and can be out (in not much more than a vest) for 20 minutes or more before a nurse spots them and drags them back in. Don't get me wrong, they seem to be treated quite well, but get to a stage of deterioration where they sneak out, day or night and do quite unbelievable things. Been woken up a few times recently between 2 and 4am to one who comes out and rattles the coded exit gate. Short of it is, a boundary of some kind needs to be maintained.

MikeJXE

I don't think it's a case of whos problem it is. They are vulnerable residents and I personally would do my best to make sure they came to no harm

RS2OOO

MikeJXE said:

I don't think it's a case of whos problem it is. They are vulnerable residents and I personally would do my best to make sure they came to no harm

Absolutely, but it does become someone's problem if something bad happened, no matter how much effort made to minimise the risks. Obviously a cost aspect to erecting a temp fence too, someone has to pay, and determine what materials are required - i.e I could knock some metal rods into the ground with netlon fencing attached - a couple of hundred pounds to hire, but is it adequate? Probably not.

EDIT: Forgot to add, even if we all agreed I'd fit a temporary fence while work carried out, I still open myself up to legal issues were I to inadvertently damage something on their side. Far fetched maybe, but hammering a post through a pipe or cable etc, miniscule chances, but could still end up liable for the consequences. Throughout my life the worst things have almost always happened when I'm doing someone, or trying to do someone a favour!

Bendy_House

Hi RS (which mk, by the way? )
First thing, check your deeds.
Whilst it's correct that no-one 'has' to have a fence, the exception is if your deeds state summat like you 'must' maintain a physical boundary, or similar.
Other than that, now't. 
If someone has a dawg, child, or dementia patient that they need to keep contained, then the onus is on them to ensure a secure boundary. However, if the 'other' neighbour - who is deemed to have 'responsibility' - takes down a fence without giving notice,  then they could be liable for any resulting issues (lost dawg, squished child, lost patient).
With such an obviously vulnerable resident, tho', the onus is surely on this care home to maintain security. 

If, say, your neighb had a dawg, you'd hopefully inform them in advance what you were planning, and that you couldn't take responsibility for ensuring their dawg couldn't escape. You'd give them adequate notice, and ensure that all this was done in a recordable way.

Ditto with this home - give them notice. There's an additional aspect in your case, tho', and it's that a 'normal' fence might just not be good enough, and that ain't your responsibility. I'd suggest contacting your LA for advice.

TELLIT01

As silvercar suggests, simply write to the care home management informing them that your fence is being removed and replaced.  Consequently there will be a period of some weeks where it will either be missing completely or will have large gaps in it.  Beyond that, it is their responsibility to ensure the security of their premises.

All I would add is to ensure that no tools or other items are left laying around which the residents may injure themselves on.