Boundary Question about Removing my Fence.

twopenny

Indeed! That's a whole new scenario. You shouldn't be erecting anything on their property.

It isn't your responsibility to prevent them crossing. You don't have to have a fence at all.

I think this needs more chat with whoever is responsible for the home. You can do it via who's in charge to pass the info.

That the fence needs to be renewed, they need to ensure their residents don't come to harm/escape - don't damage your property. It is their responsibility.
You may also consider the nuisance to you should they cross the boundary, knock on your door, walk in or pull up plants and do your best to keep any gaps covered temporarily for your own sanity.

Could you tie in a cheap fence panel to plug a gap or two?

RS2OOO

Thank you to all for the helpful replies. Seems all are singing from the same hymn sheet so hopefully a straight forward process. Good point someone made about informing them in writing, I shall do that on top of having a friendly chat, just to cover off potential misunderstandings.

@Bendy_House
Nothing in the deeds - care home didn't exist when my house was built.
And...... It's a MK1, saved from the scrap yard 30 years ago, the recovery lorry home cost more than the car back then, now she's my insurance policy in case of really hard times, but hopefully she'll be passed down to my lad.

Bendy_House

A Mk1... hmmmmmm - the prettiest (if that ain't an insult)

I'd suggest you do have a sort of responsibility to not let the residents wander out whilst you do this work, as it's a situation you are now aware of. By that, I mean you wouldn't rip down large sections of fence and leave them open without giving notice and being assured that they are aware of your plans, and will take steps to mitigate.

That's not to say you cannot remove and replace that fence, of course. It just needs doing with consideration - inform them in writing in the first instance, explain your timetable - when you intend to begin, and how long it could go on for (are you DIYing it?) - and make it clear that there will almost certainly be times when the boundary will be open and not secure. Explain that it is not your responsibility to maintain the security of the boundary (and it isn't). Ask them to acknowledge this by Xth date.

If they don't, or if you have remaining concerns, call up your LA. Not sure which department, but they will have oversight of the care homes in their area, and would hopefully be concerned if dementia patients could be free to roam.

Thinking about this, it's probably worth pointing out to the home what's been happening, and that the type of fence you currently have, and will be replacing it with, is simple not a 'secure' type, and would not cope with someone trying to exit via it. (I just have lap fencing, for example, and if anyone wanted to get through, it would just take a couple of kicks.)

I'd call up the LA in any case, and suggest that you cannot take responsibility - as you seemingly currently do - for the security of the residents in that home. It's quite astonishing that they are relying on someone else's fence to do this!

Do you have LP on your house insurance? If so, call them up and discuss this - get legal guidance.

Ath_Wat

MikeJXE said:

I don't think it's a case of whos problem it is. They are vulnerable residents and I personally would do my best to make sure they came to no harm

You can go round and put the fence up, then.  It's no more the OP's responsibility than it is yours.

In my opinion the care home, which is a business that takes money in order to look after said vulnerable people, needs to bear the expense of it.

theoretica

Is the care home owned as many are by larger organisation?  Easy to find online. I would inform - in writing - both the local manager *and* the owners by recorded delivery.  I would be explicit that for the time in question they will not be able to rely on your fence for the security of their residents.  Will there be anything like machinery, wet concrete or paint they could endanger themselves with?

casper_gutman

theoretica said:

Is the care home owned as many are by larger organisation?  Easy to find online. I would inform - in writing - both the local manager *and* the owners by recorded delivery.  I would be explicit that for the time in question they will not be able to rely on your fence for the security of their residents.  Will there be anything like machinery, wet concrete or paint they could endanger themselves with?

Not just for the time in question (i.e., while replacement of the fence is carried out) but generally: they can't rely on the OP's ordinary domestic fencing to keep their residents safe and secure at any time. There is no obligation on the OP to keep a fence that's suitable to do this, and the home certainly can't discharge their duty of care to their residents by hoping OP does it for them!

tetrarch

With dementia patients, it is certain that many have a DOLS (Deprivation Of Liberty) order in place, meaning that it is the Care Home's obligation and responsibility to stop their residents from endangering themselves by "escaping"

In my view, they have an implied obligation to have suitable boundary security to enable them to discharge their liability. You, on the other hand have NO obligation whatsoever to even have a boundary other than the aforementioned piece of string.

Agree that contacting the owners is the next port of call

Regards

Tet

Ath_Wat

The more I think about this the more I am amazed that there isn't already a secure fence around the whole perimeter of the care home property, regardless of what other people have or do not have.  The idea that they are relying on existing fences belonging to other properties seems entirely absurd.  You'd think it was one of the basic requirements.

outtatune

Ath_Wat said:

The more I think about this the more I am amazed that there isn't already a secure fence around the whole perimeter of the care home property, regardless of what other people have or do not have.  The idea that they are relying on existing fences belonging to other properties seems entirely absurd.  You'd think it was one of the basic requirements.

This.

I've been reading this thread in astonishment. OP's responsibilities end with what it says in the deeds. They have no responsibility to erect even a fence.

If the business that owns the care home relies on neighbours to provide fencing, in what other ways are they cutting corners with the residents' safety?

Brie

RS2OOO said:

You'd be surprised how many residents still wonder outside in the freezing cold, and can be out (in not much more than a vest) for 20 minutes or more before a nurse spots them and drags them back in. Don't get me wrong, they seem to be treated quite well, but get to a stage of deterioration where they sneak out, day or night and do quite unbelievable things. Been woken up a few times recently between 2 and 4am to one who comes out and rattles the coded exit gate. Short of it is, a boundary of some kind needs to be maintained.

I actually wouldn't be too surprised.  I used to live next to a place that sounds similar to your situation.  One of the few residents who was allowed outside liked to circle the grounds at dusk playing his bagpipes.  It was pretty spooky the first time but generally was much more pleasant than some of the other noises we regularly heard.