Mail online article about how the rolling blackouts will be planned and implemented.

EssexHebridean

The explanations of the system for a 4 Terminal SM being used with E7 from Sparky & Qriz are superb - Thank you both for making things so beautifully clear! 

deano2099

Agreed! Sorry I'm finding myself really curious about all this. I guess my last question is then, with setup like that, is there really still not a way to override the timer and turn on the circuit anyway? Either by consumer-accessible controls in the smart meter or within the relay?
(If the answer is "no" I actually find that more comprehensible than that being a "feature" of the older design... that sort of "idiot-proofing" seems much more common these days than in the 70s!)

[Deleted User]

deano2099 said:

Agreed! Sorry I'm finding myself really curious about all this. I guess my last question is then, with setup like that, is there really still not a way to override the timer and turn on the circuit anyway? Either by consumer-accessible controls in the smart meter or within the relay?
(If the answer is "no" I actually find that more comprehensible than that being a "feature" of the older design... that sort of "idiot-proofing" seems much more common these days than in the 70s!)

I've never come across any smart meter where the user can do more than look at different numbers.

You can get relays that have a manual override together with the signal-driven control, but they're much more expensive and nobody will have installed them in a domestic property.  Plus, installing one opens up the 'risk' of the occupant just turning the relay on all the time and then complaining when their bills are high (because it wouldn't change the billing times).

That "turn on an off-peak thing at peak times" is the boost function on a hot water tank or on storage heaters with two supplies - done at the appliance rather than at the meter.  Needs a connection to the appliance from both the normal and the off-peak consumer unit.

QrizB

deano2099 said:

Agreed! Sorry I'm finding myself really curious about all this. I guess my last question is then, with setup like that, is there really still not a way to override the timer and turn on the circuit anyway? Either by consumer-accessible controls in the smart meter or within the relay?

It would be a simple modification by a qualified electrician to add a manual switch in parallel with the auxiliary contact from the smart meter. This would give the householder a manual override and let them energise the contactor at will.

I will now demonstrate my 1337 MS Paint skills to illustrate what I mean:

I think we had a post at the start of the year where a householder was SoLR'd and their smart meter stopped switching the E7 circuit. They called an electrician out and had a switch like this fitted as a stopgap until their new supplier could set the smart meter up properly.

[Deleted User]

QrizB said:

deano2099 said:

Agreed! Sorry I'm finding myself really curious about all this. I guess my last question is then, with setup like that, is there really still not a way to override the timer and turn on the circuit anyway? Either by consumer-accessible controls in the smart meter or within the relay?

It would be a simple modification by a qualified electrician to add a manual switch in parallel with the auxiliary contact from the smart meter. This would give the householder a manual override and let them elergise the contactor at will.

I will now demonstrate my 7337 MS Paint skills to illustrate what I mean:

I think we had a post at the start of the year where a householder was SoLR'd and their smart meter stopped switching the E7 circuit. They called an electrician out and had a switch like this fitted as a stopgap until their new supplier could set the smart meter up properly.

Would you need to remove any crimp tags to get to the terminals to do that?

QrizB

Deleted_User said:

Would you need to remove any crimp tags to get to the terminals to do that?

I don't think so; it's all on the customer's side of the meter, so it's the customer's equipment and wiring.

It would be better if there was an isolation switch after the meter (some installations have one, others don't) but since you're only playing with the neutral I *guess* many electricians would be happy to do it.

[Deleted User]

QrizB said:

Deleted_User said:

Would you need to remove any crimp tags to get to the terminals to do that?

I don't think so; it's all on the customer's side of the meter, so it's the customer's equipment and wiring.

It would be better if there was an isolation switch after the meter (some installations have one, others don't) but since you're only playing with the neutral I *guess* many electricians would be happy to do it.

I didn't think so (and I see your point about working 'live' on only the neutral) - but I was looking at the photo and there seems to be crimps on both the contactor and the Henleys.

Section62

[Deleted User] said:

QrizB said:

deano2099 said:

Agreed! Sorry I'm finding myself really curious about all this. I guess my last question is then, with setup like that, is there really still not a way to override the timer and turn on the circuit anyway? Either by consumer-accessible controls in the smart meter or within the relay?

It would be a simple modification by a qualified electrician to add a manual switch in parallel with the auxiliary contact from the smart meter. This would give the householder a manual override and let them elergise the contactor at will.

I will now demonstrate my 7337 MS Paint skills to illustrate what I mean:

I think we had a post at the start of the year where a householder was SoLR'd and their smart meter stopped switching the E7 circuit. They called an electrician out and had a switch like this fitted as a stopgap until their new supplier could set the smart meter up properly.

Would you need to remove any crimp tags to get to the terminals to do that?

In that picture both the contactor and the henley blocks are sealed, which I've noticed is increasingly common even where the henley blocks are consumer-provided, so there could be an 'interesting' discussion with the supplier/DNO if the seals are cut off by an electrician to make an alteration like this.

Also, in this arrangement the power to operate the contactor is being taken from the metered side - so the consumer is paying for that electricity whereas metering generally (and with traditional E7 systems) is taken from the unmetered side and therefore not charged to the consumer.

Miser1964

Ministers 'war game' emergency plans to cope with WEEK-LONG blackouts | Daily Mail Online

Whitehall documents warn food and water supplies, transport and communications could be disrupted for seven days in a national power outage amid fears of an energy winter shortage.

Programme Yarrow prepares for a situation more severe than that outlined by National Grid last month, which warned of three-hour rolling blackouts.

Apodemus

Miser1964 said:

Ministers 'war game' emergency plans to cope with WEEK-LONG blackouts | Daily Mail Online

Whitehall documents warn food and water supplies, transport and communications could be disrupted for seven days in a national power outage amid fears of an energy winter shortage.

Programme Yarrow prepares for a situation more severe than that outlined by National Grid last month, which warned of three-hour rolling blackouts.

Governments and Local Authorities have to make sure they have emergency plans in place and be able to cope with some extreme scenarios.  The press love to spread alarm about these plans being in place and equally love to spread alarm if they hear that no plans are in place.