Mail online article about how the rolling blackouts will be planned and implemented.

QrizB

Deleted_User said:

You don't.  We've been through this on other threads.  There is an auxiliary control terminal on a smart meter than can operate an external switch for the E7 circuits - not one of the 'normal' four terminals.
There are hundreds (probably thousands) of 4-terminal smart meters running switched E7 supplies.

For the benefit of anyone else who's finding this thread makes their brain ache, here are a couple of photos of four-terminal smart meters being used to control E7 circuits via the auxiliary control terminal and an external contactor:

and

Photos copied from this thread - the one sparkyGrad refers to and which was another brain-aching one.

jrawle said:

That's OK as long as the installer who comes to fit the smart meter has the appropriate external relay and can be bothered to do the extra work.

In practice, the external contactor will (usually) already be there as it will have been used in a similar fashion with the pre-existing dumb meter.

A quick review of various energy-related forums shows that, even if it is technically possible, many people are fobbed off with four terminal meters and no auxiliary relay, or are simply told by their supplier they can't have a smart meter with E7.

The only supplier that currently has trouble with smart meters and E7 is BG, so far as I can tell from complaints on this forum.

70sbudgie

[Deleted User] said:

Thanks, but you have repeated exactly what was already said including the table.

Where abouts? I was trying to spot the information, but the conversation seemed to be about different data - apart from a short reference to the different levels of disconnection (and level 18 being pretty much off!). 

[Deleted User]

70sbudgie said:

Deleted_User said:

Thanks, but you have repeated exactly what was already said including the table.

Where abouts? I was trying to spot the information, but the conversation seemed to be about different data - apart from a short reference to the different levels of disconnection (and level 18 being pretty much off!). 

Hidden in amongst the discussion of E7 meters unfortunately.

To answer your specific questions:

"I have no benchmark of how long a disconnection event is likely to be - would it be restricted to a single timeslot?"

Doodling and MattMattMattUK gave the detailed answers - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79573351/#Comment_79573351 and https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79573463/#Comment_79573463 ,
but I summarised them and added a bit more: 
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79573779/#Comment_79573779

"But with notice around 3pm the day before, it should be possible to amend behaviours to reduce demand and hopefully we may be able to avoid the disconnections?"

Some general comments about the scheme (which touch on your post) here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79571241/#Comment_79571241

And a bit more detail specific to your question here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79571810/#Comment_79571810

I can see why you missed them - this thread has gone in three directions at once.  Happy to answer more if you have more questions - I helped write some of the plans when I worked in Network Analysis, Strategy & Planning for one of the DNOs.

ariarnia

70sbudgie said:

[Deleted User] said:

Thanks, but you have repeated exactly what was already said including the table.

Where abouts? I was trying to spot the information, but the conversation seemed to be about different data - apart from a short reference to the different levels of disconnection (and level 18 being pretty much off!). 

i think most of the conversation in the first 10 pages was about how it would work and how to find out which band you were in. inclyding some people not having a band and the idea they might be on the same circuit as a hospital or something protected. but the thread has gone back and forwards a lot over different areas over 16 pages so theres no harm having some bits repeated and put together in a post for someone who might not have time or interest to plough through everything thats been discussed

ariarnia

QrizB said:

Deleted_User said:

You don't.  We've been through this on other threads.  There is an auxiliary control terminal on a smart meter than can operate an external switch for the E7 circuits - not one of the 'normal' four terminals.
There are hundreds (probably thousands) of 4-terminal smart meters running switched E7 supplies.

For the benefit of anyone else who's finding this thread makes their brain ache, here are a couple of photos of four-terminal smart meters being used to control E7 circuits via the auxiliary control terminal and an external contactor:

and

Photos copied from this thread - the one sparkyGrad refers to and which was another brain-aching one.

so the smart meter is the bit with the key pad. the auxiliary control is the bit with no key pad. and two big brown cables and the e7 circuits are the two little boxes? nd the aux control is the bit that turns on and off for the low rate (it only goes to one of the little boxes)?

[Deleted User]

ariarnia said:

QrizB said:

Deleted_User said:

You don't.  We've been through this on other threads.  There is an auxiliary control terminal on a smart meter than can operate an external switch for the E7 circuits - not one of the 'normal' four terminals.
There are hundreds (probably thousands) of 4-terminal smart meters running switched E7 supplies.

For the benefit of anyone else who's finding this thread makes their brain ache, here are a couple of photos of four-terminal smart meters being used to control E7 circuits via the auxiliary control terminal and an external contactor:

and

Photos copied from this thread - the one sparkyGrad refers to and which was another brain-aching one.

so the smart meter is the bit with the key pad. the auxiliary control is the bit with no key pad. and two big brown cables and the e7 circuits are the two little boxes? nd the aux control is the bit that turns on and off for the low rate (it only goes to one of the little boxes)?

The little boxes are just places to connect two wires together - they don't really "do" anything.

The one with the keypad and screen is the smart meter.

The other box is the off-peak contactor (switch).  And the smaller wire connecting the switch to the meter is from the auxiliary contact (which is in the meter).

To explain the bottom one (ignore the blue cables - they are neutral cables and don't matter in this case): 

Brown cable 'L' is in from the grid.  This goes through the meter and comes out at brown cable 'LL' which goes into the connection box.  There is another brown cable 'LL' that goes from the connection box to the switch, and a brown cable without a label coming out of the bottom of the connection box and going off the photo to the left.  This unlabelled brown cable is the live supply to your consumer unit (fusebox) and then on to all the normal things in your house (lights, sockets, cooker, boiler, immersion heater...).  All the brown cables that I have already mentioned are live all the time, 24/7.

The grey cable going from the meter to the switch is the control cable.  It tells the switch to go closed ('on') at the start of off-peak, and to go open ('off') at the end of off-peak.  This means that the brown cable 'LLL' is only live during the off-peak time.  Brown cable 'LLL' will probably go to a smaller consumer unit (fusebox) which connects only to storage heaters etc (the 'off-peak only' items).

Same idea with the top picture, there just aren't any handy labels.

Hopefully this makes sense.

QrizB

ariarnia said:

so the smart meter is the bit with the key pad. the auxiliary control is the bit with no key pad. and two big brown cables and the e7 circuits are the two little boxes? nd the aux control is the bit that turns on and off for the low rate (it only goes to one of the little boxes)?

Yes, that's pretty much it.

• The smart meter (with the buttons and the display) is on the left of both boards. Two thick cables, one brown L and one blue N, come into the bottom-left of the meter, pass through the meter and come back out on the bottom-right.
• The thick cables then go to terminal blocks (aka Henley blocks, I think that's a brand name, someone will no doubt correct me if I'm wong). One thick blue one NN then goes off to act as the neutral return for all circuits, 24h and E7. The brown one is split into a thick 24h permanently-live brown LL and a second that goes to the contactor (without buttons or display).
• From the contactor comes a thick brown LLL that is only live on E7 times.
• Finally, there are two thin cables. In the first photo these are blue, in the second photo grey. These connect from the contactor, via the auxiliaty contacts on the meter to the neutral terminal block. During E7 hours the meter connects these together which energises the contactor, causing it to switch.
  

Edit: SparkyGrad beat me to it! I think we're telling the same story.

Deleted_User said:

Same idea with the top picture, there just aren't any handy labels.

The top photo uses blue and brown cable ties instead of "N" and "L" labels, but there are one, two or three cable ties used to mark cables in the same way.

ariarnia

thank you both. i will probably never need that information but i appreciate having it

70sbudgie

[Deleted User] said:

70sbudgie said:

Deleted_User said:

Thanks, but you have repeated exactly what was already said including the table.

Where abouts? I was trying to spot the information, but the conversation seemed to be about different data - apart from a short reference to the different levels of disconnection (and level 18 being pretty much off!). 

Hidden in amongst the discussion of E7 meters unfortunately.

To answer your specific questions:

"I have no benchmark of how long a disconnection event is likely to be - would it be restricted to a single timeslot?"

Doodling and MattMattMattUK gave the detailed answers - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79573351/#Comment_79573351 and https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79573463/#Comment_79573463 ,
but I summarised them and added a bit more: 
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79573779/#Comment_79573779

"But with notice around 3pm the day before, it should be possible to amend behaviours to reduce demand and hopefully we may be able to avoid the disconnections?"

Some general comments about the scheme (which touch on your post) here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79571241/#Comment_79571241

And a bit more detail specific to your question here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79571810/#Comment_79571810

I can see why you missed them - this thread has gone in three directions at once.  Happy to answer more if you have more questions - I helped write some of the plans when I worked in Network Analysis, Strategy & Planning for one of the DNOs.

Thank you. This is a really nice summary. And I can see all the bits that I had previously missed.

markin

In a weeks time when someone starts a new thread about we can just link to 70sbudgie post.