Economy 7 and ending of RTS (Radio Teleswitch Service)

Gerry1

It's a rotary timeswitch not an RTS so you won't be affected.  If you took the photo about 3:30pm BST then it's showing the correct time.

sceptical100

I am with EDF , am on Econ7 for heating and hot water and have RTS. I have tried twice to get a smart meter fitted because of the cut off of RTS but I have no O2 signal which they use and was told the meter would not know when to change to night rate and heating will not come on. I am trying to find out if there are other meters available which I can read myself but will still  allow me to have economy 7 tariff. I would like this sorted before winter sets in as I don't want problems with my heating. I am going round in circles with EDF.
Thanks in advance.
 

[Deleted User]

sceptical100 said:

I am with EDF , am on Econ7 for heating and hot water and have RTS. I have tried twice to get a smart meter fitted because of the cut off of RTS but I have no O2 signal which they use and was told the meter would not know when to change to night rate and heating will not come on. I am trying to find out if there are other meters available which I can read myself but will still  allow me to have economy 7 tariff. I would like this sorted before winter sets in as I don't want problems with my heating. I am going round in circles with EDF.
Thanks in advance.
 

This is a problem for your supplier to solve. If EDF is not willing to consider alternative solutions, then change suppliers. This is the Directive that suppliers are working to: 

Gerry1

sceptical100 said:

I have no O2 signal which they use and was told the meter would not know when to change to night rate and heating will not come on.

Don't believe the scaremongering.  There's no fixed date for the switch off of Radio 4 Long Wave which supports your RTS.  The RTS contract has been extended several times and it's quite possible (I'd say highly probable) that it will be extended again, as the article admits.

In the unlikely event that the signal is lost before your RTS has been replaced, all that's likely to happen is that your E7 switching times may drift by a minute or two per year.

It's the equivalent of your radio going faulty and you not being able to set your digital watch by the pips. It doesn't mean that you'd have 24 sunshine or 24 hour darkness.

There's nothing you need to do except to check that any local timers (e.g. an immersion heater or High Heat Retention NSH with only a 24 hour supply) match your RTS's actual E7 times rather than what they're supposed to be.  Note that in some areas there can be a two hour gap in the cheap rate period.

sceptical100

Thank you Gerry 1. I was told that because there would be no RTS then the heaters wouldn't be triggered into switching on and off and this is my biggest concern. I really need a meter which doesn't operate using a 02 mobile signal and have written to several suppliers and am still awaiting answers. Do you know if all suppliers use O2? I am trying not to worry but I am in my late 70's and don't want to be without heating .

Many thanks again 

[Deleted User]

sceptical100 said:

Thank you Gerry 1. I was told that because there would be no RTS then the heaters wouldn't be triggered into switching on and off and this is my biggest concern. I really need a meter which doesn't operate using a 02 mobile signal and have written to several suppliers and am still awaiting answers. Do you know if all suppliers use O2? I am trying not to worry but I am in my late 70's and don't want to be without heating .

Many thanks again 

Suppliers no longer offer bespoke smart metering systems. The smart meter network is managed by The Data Communications Company (DCC). The DCC has contracted with 2 communications providers: Telefonica (O2) for the Central and Southern regions and Arqiva for the Northern region. 

Suppliers now fit SMETS2 meters and communication hubs supplied by The DCC. This equipment is supplier agnostic. Post a switch, the new supplier takes on responsibility for the existing smart meter assets.

What is the problem with O2 in your area? The DCC can establish a MESH when there are 4 or more smart meters that can interconnect with each other. It only needs one meter to have contact with The DCC network for a supplier to retrieve data.

CSI_Yorkshire

sceptical100 said:

Thank you Gerry 1. I was told that because there would be no RTS then the heaters wouldn't be triggered into switching on and off and this is my biggest concern. I really need a meter which doesn't operate using a 02 mobile signal and have written to several suppliers and am still awaiting answers. Do you know if all suppliers use O2? I am trying not to worry but I am in my late 70's and don't want to be without heating .

Many thanks again 

Gerry (again) is wrong on almost every technical aspect of their post but, luckily for you, probably right overall about the outcome.

There is a fixed date for switch off.  It's just a fixed date that they are allowed to move if they haven't managed to replace enough of the RTS systems.  They've moved it several times, and probably will again, but that doesn't mean they have to move it.

"all that's likely to happen is that your E7 switching times may drift by a minute or two per year" is true, but notice the word "likely" in there.  It is technically possible that all sorts of unusual things might happen, including (under a very strange set of circumstances) being stuck either on peak or off-peak.

Dolor has described the O2 situation well - you're either in the O2 area or you are not, there isn't different systems for different suppliers.  There is the 'mesh' way of making meters work without the signal, or they might be able to just fit a smart meter working in 'dumb' mode.

The point about checking any times is a good one.

Very very likely, however, that everything will work out fine for you.

Gerry1

sceptical100 said:

Thank you Gerry 1. I was told that because there would be no RTS then the heaters wouldn't be triggered into switching on and off and this is my biggest concern. I really need a meter which doesn't operate using a 02 mobile signal and have written to several suppliers and am still awaiting answers. Do you know if all suppliers use O2? I am trying not to worry but I am in my late 70's and don't want to be without heating .

Many thanks again 

You don't need to write to anyone.  You won't be left without heating.

For info, here's the map showing how O2 provides coverage in the south, but it's purely for academic interest.

The only thing you might need to check would be the programmed switching times of any High Heat Retention NSHs (e.g. Dimplex Quantum) that operate from a single 24-hour supply.  It's possible that the switching times could change slightly in the post-RTS era.

If you have conventional Box of Bricks NSHs without a fan then it doesn't matter if the E7 times change: they can only charge up at times when the E7 circuits are live.

Edit: You might also need to check the immersion heater if it's on a 24-hour circuit with a programmable local timer, but that's not very common.

QrizB

CSI_Yorkshire said:

There is a fixed date for switch off.  It's just a fixed date that they are allowed to move if they haven't managed to replace enough of the RTS systems.  They've moved it several times, and probably will again, but that doesn't mean they have to move it.

And considering that Ofgem has (finally) got fed up with the slow pace of the smart meter rollout and is threatening suppliers with penalties if they don't hit their targets, I would imagine the RTS switch-off date won't get moved many more times.

Ofgem's current stance is that it will switch off in March 2024. The BBC seem to be expecting the R4 LW transmitters to be switched off at the same time.

Interestingly, this Ofgem presentation from 2014 includes "load shedding" among the functions offered by the RTS system - something that people sometimes object to when smart meters are being discussed! (Ignore the date on the first slide, neither Ofgem nor PowerPoint existed in 1985 ...)

PZ19

I have Economy 10 in the flat and have 2 meter set up.  One for the 10 hour heat and water and one for the day and night rates..  I assume this affects me?  Not had any communication from EDF