Economy 7 and ending of RTS (Radio Teleswitch Service)

JSHarris

Getting a Teleswitch swapped out for a five wire multirate meter should be straightforward.  Our (non-functioning) smart meter was swapped out for a standard five wire dual rate meter about 4 years ago.  Took the chap about half an hour to do, and didn't cost anything.

gambleruk

Just for information for people I have the teleswitch and have tried to have a smart meter fit for economy 7, two reasons they cannot fit a smart meter is that one my current meter is attached to an asbestos board so currently waiting for the electricity company to come out and change it but will take 12 months approx and probably more useful info is that our economy 7 is on an electra tech circuit board and the two engineers which have been out both have said they cannot fit a smart meter because they have had problems with the electra tech unit not working correctly once they have swapped the meters over. 

Be_Happy

JSHarris said:

Looking at the photo closely I suspect that the meters are refurbished 1980's meters.  Not 100% sure, but I believe the red labels with the letter "R" indicate this.  No idea why 1980's induction meters would be installed in 2002 though.  The vast majority of suppliers had switched to digital meters by the mid-1990s.  The installation is up to date, the meter tails are new style 25mm² ones, and definitely not as old as the meters.  I suspect the 2011 date may relate to when the tails and CU were installed, perhaps.  This would have involved pulling the cutout and rewiring the meters.

The card indicates that the previous meters (numbers shown) were replaced by the present meters in 2011.

CSI_Yorkshire

Be_Happy said:

JSHarris said:

Looking at the photo closely I suspect that the meters are refurbished 1980's meters.  Not 100% sure, but I believe the red labels with the letter "R" indicate this.  No idea why 1980's induction meters would be installed in 2002 though.  The vast majority of suppliers had switched to digital meters by the mid-1990s.  The installation is up to date, the meter tails are new style 25mm² ones, and definitely not as old as the meters.  I suspect the 2011 date may relate to when the tails and CU were installed, perhaps.  This would have involved pulling the cutout and rewiring the meters.

The card indicates that the previous meters (numbers shown) were replaced by the present meters in 2011.

But replaced by refurbished meters - as they were not reading anywhere near zero.

Elisew

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Elisew said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Elisew said:

Does anyone know for definite
1: whether it's 2024 or is it 2025,
2: is it the 'COULD' and not 'Will' stop working and
3: Do I really have to change to a Smart Meter or can I just plod on with the digital 2 rate meter I already have?

1.  It's 2024 unless they delay it again.

2.  Could, and it's only a small chance.

3.  Any meter change will be to a smart meter.  Why don't you want one?  Have you been misled by one of the disproved theories that get spread around?

Yes that's what I'm wondering so don't know if I can just wait further   

It's not about 'proved or disproved' I have just never wanted nor needed a Smart Meter, I don't trust many people let alone Businesses and especially not greedy ones who have no problem in walking all over their customers with no conscience whatsoever.
My personal feeling is that I do not in any way, shape or form trust these companies to NOT switch individual customers supply off and Smart Meters are an avenue towards this........it's just the principle of it and unfortunately a word of promise one minute doesn't count for much when the opposite gets done and excuses follow. I'll make no apology for not trusting them. 


Aaanyway, I will be at the property in a few weeks so I will happily get a photo of the meter that's currently installed.

Thanks to all for comments and info, I do appreciate the input

So it is one of the conspiracy theories then.

Fair enough, that's your choice.  Most likely you will just end up on the most expensive of all possible tariff options though.

Conspiracy theory to you maybe, just a simple mistrust of greedy, fat cat Government and energy companies to me. I guess it's normal these days for things to be labelled as a 'conspiracy theory' when people aren't prepared to just follow what they're told without questioning it but hey, each to their own I guess. If you're comfortable with what you're told them that's great.

IF it was so important for Smart Meters to send info to the energy companies about customers usage, why when they don't or can't communicate with one or both meters do these energy companies not do something about it instead of simply 'shrugging' it off when customers take the time to call and report it? (literally just a question, because I'm curious) BTW, my Husband does have a meter that only 'communicates with one of his energy meters).

CSI_Yorkshire

Elisew said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Elisew said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Elisew said:

Does anyone know for definite
1: whether it's 2024 or is it 2025,
2: is it the 'COULD' and not 'Will' stop working and
3: Do I really have to change to a Smart Meter or can I just plod on with the digital 2 rate meter I already have?

1.  It's 2024 unless they delay it again.

2.  Could, and it's only a small chance.

3.  Any meter change will be to a smart meter.  Why don't you want one?  Have you been misled by one of the disproved theories that get spread around?

Yes that's what I'm wondering so don't know if I can just wait further   

It's not about 'proved or disproved' I have just never wanted nor needed a Smart Meter, I don't trust many people let alone Businesses and especially not greedy ones who have no problem in walking all over their customers with no conscience whatsoever.
My personal feeling is that I do not in any way, shape or form trust these companies to NOT switch individual customers supply off and Smart Meters are an avenue towards this........it's just the principle of it and unfortunately a word of promise one minute doesn't count for much when the opposite gets done and excuses follow. I'll make no apology for not trusting them. 


Aaanyway, I will be at the property in a few weeks so I will happily get a photo of the meter that's currently installed.

Thanks to all for comments and info, I do appreciate the input

So it is one of the conspiracy theories then.

Fair enough, that's your choice.  Most likely you will just end up on the most expensive of all possible tariff options though.

IF it was so important for Smart Meters to send info to the energy companies about customers usage, why when they don't or can't communicate with one or both meters do these energy companies not do something about it instead of simply 'shrugging' it off when customers take the time to call and report it? (literally just a question, because I'm curious) BTW, my Husband does have a meter that only 'communicates with one of his energy meters).

Pretty much because the targets that the suppliers have been given at the moment are to fit smart meters but there is no major target for having working smart meters.

Elisew said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Elisew said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Elisew said:

Does anyone know for definite
1: whether it's 2024 or is it 2025,
2: is it the 'COULD' and not 'Will' stop working and
3: Do I really have to change to a Smart Meter or can I just plod on with the digital 2 rate meter I already have?

1.  It's 2024 unless they delay it again.

2.  Could, and it's only a small chance.

3.  Any meter change will be to a smart meter.  Why don't you want one?  Have you been misled by one of the disproved theories that get spread around?

Yes that's what I'm wondering so don't know if I can just wait further   

It's not about 'proved or disproved' I have just never wanted nor needed a Smart Meter, I don't trust many people let alone Businesses and especially not greedy ones who have no problem in walking all over their customers with no conscience whatsoever.
My personal feeling is that I do not in any way, shape or form trust these companies to NOT switch individual customers supply off and Smart Meters are an avenue towards this........it's just the principle of it and unfortunately a word of promise one minute doesn't count for much when the opposite gets done and excuses follow. I'll make no apology for not trusting them. 


Aaanyway, I will be at the property in a few weeks so I will happily get a photo of the meter that's currently installed.

Thanks to all for comments and info, I do appreciate the input

So it is one of the conspiracy theories then.

Fair enough, that's your choice.  Most likely you will just end up on the most expensive of all possible tariff options though.

Conspiracy theory to you maybe, just a simple mistrust of greedy, fat cat Government and energy companies to me. I guess it's normal these days for things to be labelled as a 'conspiracy theory' when people aren't prepared to just follow what they're told without questioning it but hey, each to their own I guess. If you're comfortable with what you're told them that's great.

Your specific reason for not wanting a smart meter was because you don't trust the combination of government, justice system, and industry not to use a function that has never previously been used (and can't be used in the circumstance you describe without a court order) directly to target you.

That's almost a dictionary definition of conspiracy theory.

Elisew

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Your specific reason for not wanting a smart meter was because you don't trust the combination of government, justice system, and industry not to use a function that has never previously been used (and can't be used in the circumstance you describe without a court order) directly to target you.

That's almost a dictionary definition of conspiracy theory.

Mistrust based on how said Government and Energy companies have actually behaved, so clearly based on something and not just pulled out of thin air. btw I never said anything about our amazing and wonderful Justice System

Anyway, thank you for answering my question. It would appear that energy companies are pushed to install these not so smart 'smart meters' yet it doesn't actually matter whether they work in the way we're told they should.......makes sense to some I suppose.

JSHarris

I think there are reasonable grounds for having a degree of mistrust in the government, and an even greater degree of mistrust in energy suppliers.  Can't see how the justice system comes into this issue though.

The law allows any smart meter to be disconnected remotely.  At the moment there is a voluntary agreement (not law) that suppliers have signed up to, where they have promised to only use the remote disconnect facility for specific reasons (power cut graceful recovery, load shedding in the event of network overload, and customer disconnection following the same non-payment of bill process as they use when they need a warrant to physically disconnect premises (no warrant is required to disconnect using the smart meter function, AFAIK).

I know of two cases where people have had their power cut off remotely.  Both were apparently finger trouble.  One was a former colleague who's flat was disconnected and left with no power for two days.  No reason was given by the supplier, other than it was an error of some sort.  last I heard he was still doing battle with them for compensation for the food lost in his fridge freezer.

The second case was not too far from here and is one I saw first hand in late 2020 (mid-pandemic).  An elderly lady contacted the  community support group to say her electricity had been cut off.  I went around to see if there was a fault and found her smart meter had been remotely switched off.  I spent ages trying to get her supplier to sort it and turn her meter back on again.  Lots of standard problems with data security (they'd not talk with me, and the lady didn't understand what the problem was).  No reason given for the error, plus it took about 10 hours for the remote switch on signal to propagate from the supplier, through DCC to her meter.  She was lucky, she was only without power for around 14 hours and the weather wasn't cold. Sure these are anecdotal tales.  They may or may not be something to be bothered about. 

One thing I'm becoming increasingly aware of as I get older is that society is becoming more accepting of things not working and being flaky.  Not a major issue when an app crashes, or your email stops working for an hour or two.  Having owned a car where the same sort of flaky software caused it to slam the brakes on (for no reason) randomly, and usually on motorways, and having been told that it was just something owners have to accept, like we accept apps crashing on phones, I'm increasingly concerned that the standards of reliability we've got used to with phone and energy services is being diluted.  Maybe not an issue if you're young and fit.  More of a concern when you're old, need reliable power to stay alive and need the ability to call for help in an emergency.

I do think it's a valid area to express concern about.  I don't think it's something to be just dismissed by those that have the good fortune to not be affected by these concerns at the moment.

brilec

[Deleted User] said:

A moot point. Smart meters are mandatory in France. Consumers who refuse are now subject to an annual 'fine' which is to be reviewed each year.

Not true, they are still encouraging people to get a "linky" meter, and there is a surcharge of €8 if you don't send in a meter reading at least once a year.

CSI_Yorkshire

brilec said:

[Deleted User] said:

A moot point. Smart meters are mandatory in France. Consumers who refuse are now subject to an annual 'fine' which is to be reviewed each year.

Not true, they are still encouraging people to get a "linky" meter, and there is a surcharge of €8 if you don't send in a meter reading at least once a year.

They are mandatory, and there is a bimonthly fine (or more accurately a surcharge) if you refuse.  They've said that for at least 2 years they will waive this surcharge if you send readings yourself, but that doesn't change the facts.