Moving on with things

Scott_Weiland79

alt80 said:

Had a lovely break with my family, back to reality today, though. I love spending time with my family when I can let go of all the things that I have been struggling with for these past few years and not fill my whole day with work and the house. Which causes my wife and I to fall out as she finds me not really engaging difficult. I hate the idea that I am not providing enough for my wife and son but I can’t stop the thoughts and prior to going away I was missing the days of spending money on myself too. Just ups the pressure I put on myself and I wish that I didn’t care about it and saw some value in myself other than my ability or what sometimes feels like a lack thereof to generate income.

alt80 said:

Had a lovely break with my family, back to reality today, though. I love spending time with my family when I can let go of all the things that I have been struggling with for these past few years and not fill my whole day with work and the house. Which causes my wife and I to fall out as she finds me not really engaging difficult. I hate the idea that I am not providing enough for my wife and son but I can’t stop the thoughts and prior to going away I was missing the days of spending money on myself too. Just ups the pressure I put on myself and I wish that I didn’t care about it and saw some value in myself other than my ability or what sometimes feels like a lack thereof to generate income.

Can I ask why you dont spend money on you??

I know your in debt and your trying to clear it etc but I have just had a read of your diary a few pages only and your mental health seems very uppy down surely you could budget to give yourself a small treat. Even if it was just like meeting friends once a month for a few drinks, or treating yourself every once in a while to splurging a little bit on say some new clothes maybe. We cant live like buddist monks even though we are in debt and if your mental health is bad its gunna make it hard to function at work/harder to sleep etc

I havent read your entire diary but can I ask a question re your other half. Does she work fulltime or is she a full time mam?

alt80

@Scott_Weiland79 My wife is a full time mum. 

I don't want treats for myself, I find it just leads to guilt afterwards. I'd rather spend on my family, get my debts cleared or work towards providing my family with a better future for when I'm gone. Haven't always been like this, no desire to go back to my old ways even though from time to time there are elements I miss about the past. 

Yeah, my mental health is shot, has been for a long time. I have my own business and very much rely on my staff to keep things ticking over work wise.

RelievedSheff

Have you thought it might be good for your wife if she got a little part time job or did some volunteering work?

She might appreciate money a bit more if she earned it herself.

I know you want to provide everything for her but that doesn't really instill any value in things for her, or your son.

Not only that bit it will get her out and doing her own worktime routine.

It wouldn't mean you had failed to provide for her mind you!

alt80

@RelievedSheff I’d love her to work, it’s not me holding her back from working or volunteering.

She has tried a few things but really struggles with when she needs to meet client expectations when they don’t 100% align with what she wants to do. Fairly recently she was mentoring a few girls who wanted to glow up, it didn’t end well. Tbf my wife was actually being brutally honest about what they needed to do but it wasn’t the right approach, same thing when she did PT although neither of those have ever resulted in her taking paying clients. She used to do nails which she enjoyed for herself but got upset that the girls sometimes wanted designs she didn’t like or want to do and expected it because they were paying her. She’s worked with me in my business - driving me around she is fine with that tbf and still does when one of my staff can’t. She also tried a little bit of other work in the business and it resulted in everybody getting upset after a while. 

Tbf she just likes doing her own thing rather than work / jobs / chores. Has a great routine, decent sleep schedule, early morning light etc. not up all hours like me, ha. She does keep herself busy, spends her time being a mum, playing with our son, going to the gym, playing the piano, learning the TikTok dances / makeup routines, photoshop / iPad art, checking and adding to her lists of things to buy, shopping and reading the fashion and the Apple magazines. She does college courses every so often and is thinking about doing a course on the photoshop/ iPad art this winter.

Scott_Weiland79

alt80 said:

@Scott_Weiland79 My wife is a full time mum. 

I don't want treats for myself, I find it just leads to guilt afterwards. I'd rather spend on my family, get my debts cleared or work towards providing my family with a better future for when I'm gone. Haven't always been like this, no desire to go back to my old ways even though from time to time there are elements I miss about the past. 

Yeah, my mental health is shot, has been for a long time. I have my own business and very much rely on my staff to keep things ticking over work wise.

When I am gone what do you mean?  And your philosophy seem quite bad imo.  Your a dad i get it, you want the best for your family i get it, you want out of debt so you can do that.  I have a twenty year old son so I know what its like but you said it yourself your mental health is shot.

What do you miss you said this "there are elements I miss about the past."

I am sorry if i sound nosey but 8years ago i was you. I was in a six year relationship i worked all the hours god sends, i chucked money at my then partner. Xmas's i would spend 1000-1500 her bday the same easy 750 upwards, i cut away friends and everything i did was for that family unit, i worked from home all through covid and did nothing for me. I would sleep horrendous, my diet was horrendous, I would work 30-40 extra hours overtime pw and i would blow it all on the family. The result was i broke eventually.

Look at it this way if your mental health is shot are your being the best version of you. I have had mental health issues really severe in the past and i didnt face it. It took me till last year and a total break down to deal with it through cbt/emdr therapy. When I went through counselling my therapist talked alot about mental resilience little things can make such a difference, mine was right no matter how down i feel I am gunna drag myself to the gym 3 days a week, or once a month i am gunna take an hour for me and go for a sports massage.


What do you do for you ie self care:

do you go to the gym

do you have a night out with friends occasionally

if your m/h is bad have you spoke with a professional about it

Do you treat your self only occasionally with little things ie i dunno pulling out 50 quid to go for a massage/going to the barbers and having a wet shave facial thing.

Treating your self to some new clothes would that improve your self esteem,50-75 quid every once in a while would be a bad thing and it would be a drop in the ocean compared to what i have seen in your diary

Do you do anything thats just for you, forget your family for the minute?



If your not mentally strong it makes this financial journey your on a heck of a lot harder being there got the tshirt. 

Your wife seems to have a great life and she does stuff for her i copied and pasted this off your post. Whereas your stressed/uppy downy/not sleeping etc etc it doesnt seem right.

She does keep herself busy, spends her time being a mum, playing with our son, going to the gym, playing the piano, learning the TikTok dances / makeup routines, photoshop / iPad art, checking and adding to her lists of things to buy, shopping and reading the fashion and the Apple magazines. She does college courses every so often and is thinking about doing a course on the photoshop/ iPad art this winter.

Scott_Weiland79

RelievedSheff said:

Have you thought it might be good for your wife if she got a little part time job or did some volunteering work?

She might appreciate money a bit more if she earned it herself.

I know you want to provide everything for her but that doesn't really instill any value in things for her, or your son.

Not only that bit it will get her out and doing her own worktime routine.

It wouldn't mean you had failed to provide for her mind you!

I totally agree and its 2024 not 1960 I dont like the whole provider thing your a partnership not her provider.

crunchy_time

alt80 said:

@crunchy_time thank you for taking the time to respond. I have not read the Ramit Sethi book but I did listen to him talk on a podcast a while back; he has a lot of ideas I disagree with iirc he is the guy who places little value on home/ property ownership and is, like you, very travel / holiday orientated. 

It is interesting how others perceive purchases whether things or experiences. I find your “don’t want to waste it on anything stupid” comment one which could instigate debate as to what type of purchases are stupid or otherwise - we’d all have a very different take on this, I’m sure. There are things I would not spend so heavily on if I were you and I’m sure you have similar thoughts about my SOA / budget which I posted on here. You are doing what is right for you and that is all that matters.

Fwiw, I don’t want to deny my wife the things she would like to buy and in the case of the limited run Cartier, she would be likely to be able to wear it for life and see the money back likely with a decent return should she wish. I would give her the world if I could, nothing I want more for her to have everything she wants in life. I used to want it for myself, only reason I don’t anymore is I don’t see a future in which I will want to live personally, so why bother. That isn’t me saying I’m going to leave my family without me, they don’t want that so I am trying to see my family right instead and provide the best I can for them. That is a lifetime job 100%. I am frustrated with myself rather than my little family.

100% agree - we do all have a different take on what ‘stupid’ spending is. For me it’s things I regret spending money on like clothes I haven’t worn, nights out in the past that I did just to please other people. I once did a course that cost £2000 that I then didn’t use in my career. I guess it’s about spending money on things that are aligned with your values and those things I regret spending money on weren’t and what I value is going to be different for everyone else.

Thats why I like Ramit as that is the premise of his stance on money management- creating YOUR rich life - aligned to your values. He is a millionaire but his car is like 20 years old and his rich life is spending money on nice hotels when he travels and baby cashmere sweaters 🤣 

Im not an expert but I believe the property market is different in USA and it might be easier to rent - more stock than uk and different laws hence why here in the uk home ownership is coveted more.

The point is that you define what success and richness looks like for you and work your money supports you with that. I like it as it empowers me to create the life that I want and not be constantly thinking about what society tells me success should look like. 

I read this book this year and already have changed my mindset. In the spring I was worrying about the fact that our cars are old and look old now and thinking that we earn six figures so surely we should show that to the world in some way through a car purchase that will show the world what kind of people we were. 

Now I drive around in my 10 year old Nissan smiling as it’s paid off and I could buy another one but I choose not to even though I have £40k in the bank!! It’s such a liberating feeling. I never thought I would feel this way. It was such a slog. I wish he was around when I was paying debt off 10 years ago - I reckon I would have done it quicker. 

Anyway, it’s worth a read even if you skip over the renting bit. Choosing what and creating YOUR rich life is such a good feeling because you are worth spending money on for you as a family unit, based on what you want out of life not just your wife. You are valuable and worth it, Please don’t forget that. You have come a long way and you should feel proud of yourself.

alt80

@Scott_Weiland79 I mean when I'm dead. I miss elements of having a lifestyle, spending money guilt-free.Thank you for your advice mate. Tbf I would be advising someone else to do something very similar to what you are advising me to do, I have done in fact on here.

 

To answer your questions, I train at the gym, mix of weights and running. Not been for a few weeks tbf but I need to get back into it, holiday coming up soon ha.

I distanced myself from anyone my own age that I knew when I got serious about dealing with addiction. I do speak to a few business associates that have retired, sometimes they come to my office for a cup of tea. I used to have a good friend who has some classic cars. My wife takes my son to see them now but we do, from time to time, all go out with them.

I have had so much therapy I should not still have poor mental health but I do and it is not the fault of the therapy, it's my fault because I can't do the things you mention outside of nodding along and cannot build mental resilience with self care because I just don't care about myself. 

In recent months, I just get my hair cut, used to enjoy quite a few treatments but I'd rather the money go to my wife as she is very into beauty treatments.

I have a fairly extensive wardrobe, very little bought post-Covid. Tbh I tend to just get what I have repaired if need be. My wife still likes buying clothes and we are trying to spend less; clearing debts and not being reckless. 

@crunchy_time idk if it is the terminology that Ramit uses that I don’t like, tbf I think that has a lot to do with it. I find it revolting personally, him telling everyone, whilst profiting from it as a guru that they can have their “rich life” (yuk) if they only sacrifice everything but a couple of little things- absolute nonsense imo. Although, I’m pleased that you have found it helpful, generally I really dislike gurus. There’s a lot of them in the property space who do little other than take money off the vulnerable, deliver a poor quality “course” without any prerequisites setting most up to fail and using that money to pay their own way.

I don’t know anything about the American property market but know of others in the UK spouting similar rubbish. Where you live is the place you spend most time- would you advise your kids to spend it in someone else’s house if they could help it? As you know I’m a landlord and there is no better day than when one of my tenants buys their own home, I love seeing them move on from that stage, will never get old. 

Idk what it is about cars but there seems a lot of inverse snobbery around them on here and in the personal finance sector generally. No idea personally why you would want to be in a 10 year old Nissan less about others perception, more I’m sure you wouldn’t want to live in a council estate filled with furniture from Ikea and The Range if you had a better option - you and your family spend your time in both the car and the house. However, I agree that if it is right for you that is all that matters. 

Don’t think I’m knocking it for you, I’m pleased you have found something which works and you are happy with what you have and the spending power that amount brings. I will never have enough ha and don’t really have much of a future to live for personally. That’s not about money, it’s about having poor mental health that I am unable to shake off.

RelievedSheff

Alt, having therapy for your mental health isn't a quick fix, it is an aid to help your healing not a cure. You have to put in the hard work outside of your therapy sessions as well, as I'm sure you are in some ways but in other ways the work is going to take longer, much longer.

With regards the cars, we have never really understood the need that some people have to always be seen in a new car. We are very much like Crunchy Time in this respect. We buy a couple of year old vehicle when the big depreciation has already happened and then run it until it becomes unreliable. My last Nissan we had for 15 years, the one prior 7 years. Our current Hyundai we have had for 6 years with no plans to change it anytime soon. Even had the boat 13 years and I doubt the van will be going anywhere anytime soon!

There is no quicker way to lose money than buying new cars for snobbery.

Scott_Weiland79

alt80 said:

@Scott_Weiland79 I mean when I'm dead. I miss elements of having a lifestyle, spending money guilt-free.Thank you for your advice mate. Tbf I would be advising someone else to do something very similar to what you are advising me to do, I have done in fact on here.

 

To answer your questions, I train at the gym, mix of weights and running. Not been for a few weeks tbf but I need to get back into it, holiday coming up soon ha.

I distanced myself from anyone my own age that I knew when I got serious about dealing with addiction. I do speak to a few business associates that have retired, sometimes they come to my office for a cup of tea. I used to have a good friend who has some classic cars. My wife takes my son to see them now but we do, from time to time, all go out with them.

I have had so much therapy I should not still have poor mental health but I do and it is not the fault of the therapy, it's my fault because I can't do the things you mention outside of nodding along and cannot build mental resilience with self care because I just don't care about myself. 

In recent months, I just get my hair cut, used to enjoy quite a few treatments but I'd rather the money go to my wife as she is very into beauty treatments.

I have a fairly extensive wardrobe, very little bought post-Covid. Tbh I tend to just get what I have repaired if need be. My wife still likes buying clothes and we are trying to spend less; clearing debts and not being reckless. 

@crunchy_time idk if it is the terminology that Ramit uses that I don’t like, tbf I think that has a lot to do with it. I find it revolting personally, him telling everyone, whilst profiting from it as a guru that they can have their “rich life” (yuk) if they only sacrifice everything but a couple of little things- absolute nonsense imo. Although, I’m pleased that you have found it helpful, generally I really dislike gurus. There’s a lot of them in the property space who do little other than take money off the vulnerable, deliver a poor quality “course” without any prerequisites setting most up to fail and using that money to pay their own way.

I don’t know anything about the American property market but know of others in the UK spouting similar rubbish. Where you live is the place you spend most time- would you advise your kids to spend it in someone else’s house if they could help it? As you know I’m a landlord and there is no better day than when one of my tenants buys their own home, I love seeing them move on from that stage, will never get old. 

Idk what it is about cars but there seems a lot of inverse snobbery around them on here and in the personal finance sector generally. No idea personally why you would want to be in a 10 year old Nissan less about others perception, more I’m sure you wouldn’t want to live in a council estate filled with furniture from Ikea and The Range if you had a better option - you and your family spend your time in both the car and the house. However, I agree that if it is right for you that is all that matters. 

Don’t think I’m knocking it for you, I’m pleased you have found something which works and you are happy with what you have and the spending power that amount brings. I will never have enough ha and don’t really have much of a future to live for personally. That’s not about money, it’s about having poor mental health that I am unable to shake off.

You need to take better care of yourself mate thats twice in your post when discussing yourself and self care you mention your missus 😒. I know she is your wife and you clearly love her but we need to get you in a good place not her.

Mental resilence comes from self care, and what your saying isnt true. I am with step change I pay them nearly 900 pm, even in there I have a budget for hair cuts, a few nights out, going to the gym, a massage is included in the social bit. You can do little things to make you feel better without them costing a bomb.

Gym I think you need to restart and you need to start caring about yourself again. Does your wife know you feel like that ie you dont care about yourself? If I said that to my other half she would be all over me and probably worried sick. I had a horrendous night at work the week before last, i messaged my other half who straight away whatsapp facetimed me and was telling me jokes, making me laugh, she came her from her parents place early as she said i sounded like i needed a hug etc 

my o/h would be like

what can i do so you dont feel like that, talk to me about it, etc etc