EDF Smart Meter Harassment

melbury

I was pressured by EDF into having my meters changed and I eventually caved in, provided they were fitted in dumb mode. I really did not want to have them changed, but was told that if it wasn’t done this year it would have to be next year - is that true? Also they said that my existing meters had reached the end of their lifespan and they were legally required to change them - again I have my doubts about that.  Although they were 32 years old they worked perfectly and were good solid British made meters. Now I have two meters that were made in China.

I know my old meters were still accurate because I have always taken weekly readings (sad person that I am).  However, since the new gas meter was fitted the weekly usage has more than doubled and I am so upset because I know if I contact them they will simply say the old meter was obviously not working properly.  Well it couldn’t have been giving incorrect readings for 32 years and now I will have to try and use 50% less gas this winter just to have a similar figure to last year. 

 I feel like phoning them and saying that there must be a fault with the gas meter, but can’t see that it would get me anywhere.

dunstonh

I was pressured by EDF into having my meters changed and I eventually caved in, provided they were fitted in dumb mode. I really did not want to have them changed, but was told that if it wasn’t done this year it would have to be next year - is that true?

There are time issues if you are on economy 7 RTS or if the meter is going out of certification.

Also they said that my existing meters had reached the end of their lifespan and they were legally required to change them - again I have my doubts about that.  

They are correct.  You are wrong.

I know my old meters were still accurate because I have always taken weekly readings (sad person that I am).

That is not a measure of accuracy.   

 However, since the new gas meter was fitted the weekly usage has more than doubled and I am so upset because I know if I contact them they will simply say the old meter was obviously not working properly. 

Quite possibly the case.

i had a 30 year old water meter that was replaced and my water "use" went up a lot.  Except I knew my old meter was faulty as it wouldn't work from October to April.

 Well it couldn’t have been giving incorrect readings for 32 years and now I will have to try and use 50% less gas this winter just to have a similar figure to last year. 

If it was failing, then its more likely that any incorrect recording built up later in life.

You can pretty much know when your meter is not giving a big enough reading or when it is giving too much if you are honest with yourself.

SAC2334

littleteapot said:

When I started work in the late 90s, one of the departments in our firm was involved with testing the robustness of electronic devices. This included electrostatic discharge tolerance.

For this purpose they had a 'gun' which they would touch on the housing of the device under test and it would emulate a strong static discherge to the housing of the device. Unsuprisingly this killed a fair proportion of electronic devices in plastic housings. For those that are particularly paranoid about smart meters, perhaps such a test could be performed on the communications hub?

Its illegal to tamper the suppliers equipment and not a good idea to suggest it .The Comms hub is the property of the supplier not the householder 

ArbitraryRandom

dunstonh said:

Also they said that my existing meters had reached the end of their lifespan and they were legally required to change them - again I have my doubts about that.  

They are correct.  You are wrong.

I think it's regulation rather than law - they don't HAVE to replace them... but they can't bill a customer for usage if the meters are out of certification. 

melbury said:

I know my old meters were still accurate because I have always taken weekly readings (sad person that I am).  However, since the new gas meter was fitted the weekly usage has more than doubled and I am so upset because I know if I contact them they will simply say the old meter was obviously not working properly.  Well it couldn’t have been giving incorrect readings for 32 years and now I will have to try and use 50% less gas this winter just to have a similar figure to last year. 

Would you say a set of old scales are accurate because you use them regularly? Or would you accept you can only test their accuracy by weighing something you already know the weight of? 

Just the same as a set of scales can become uncalibrated after regular use, so can a gas/electric meter - it doesn't mean it's been wrong the whole time and the older something is the more likely it develops a fault... hence them having a life expectancy. Or, one other thing I've heard about is there being a mistake on the system (perhaps when you switched supplier) so the supplier thinks your meter is measuring in metric, it's actually in imperial (cubic feet) - all smart meters are m3. 

It's not as easy to test gas use as it is electric (electrical appliances have a rated and reliable usage, gas is depending on a lot of environmental factors), but you can still do a basic sanity check - turn off all your gas appliances (inc pilot light if relevant), then wait half an hour for the meter to 'catch up' and take a meter reading. Then turn on one thing - if you have a combi boiler, maybe have a shower? 

The exact usage will depend on things like how long you shower for, the temp of your water (before and after heating), the flow rate of the water, and the size/power of your boiler... but I think a 10 min shower averages around 5 kwh, which should be about half a 'unit' on your new meter. 

Remember to wait about half an hour after turning off the appliance  before taking the reading again to make sure it's recorded correctly. 

My other suggestion would be that if your boiler is older or hasn't been serviced recently then it could also be getting less efficient as it ages - could be worth getting it checked if you can't find anything wrong with the new meter. 

[Deleted User]

I think it's regulation rather than law - they don't HAVE to replace them... but they can't bill a customer for usage if the meters are out of certification. 

Schedule 7 of The Electricity Act 1989 applies:

The meter shall be provided—

(a)by the electricity supplier, whether by way of sale, hire or loan; or

(b)if agreed by the parties in the case of a meter used or intended to be used in connection with an exempt supply, by the customer.

(3)The meter shall be installed on the customer’s premises in a position determined by the electricity supplier, unless in all the circumstances it is more reasonable to place it outside those premises or in some other position.

(4)The electricity supplier may require the replacement of any meter provided and installed in accordance with sub-paragraphs (2) and (3) above where its replacement—

(a)is necessary to secure compliance with this Schedule or any regulations made under it; or

(b)is otherwise reasonable in all the circumstances;

and any replacement meter shall be provided and installed in accordance with those sub-paragraphs.

(5)an appropriate meter provided and installed in accordance with sub-paragraphs (2) and (3) above, the supplier may refuse to give or may discontinue the supply.

melbury

Whilst I appreciate your various replies, I do not agree with them. 

You are saying that meters can become "uncalibrated" over time, but as pointed out, I have taken readings since we moved in and there has been nothing at all to signify that the gas meter was giving incorrect readings at any time, they were absolutely constant.   Or are you implying that it was incorrect even when it was new?  We have never had Economy 7 and I really don't see how that could have any bearing on the gas meter.

Also, how do you know that the meter they have fitted is correct?

We have always had fairly high gas bills, despite not having the heating on for more than 6 hours per day in winter and 1 hour for hot water and were pleased that we managed to reduce usage by about 15% last winter by cutting right back and switching off all radiators in rooms not in use.  Now it looks like we will have to cut back even more or pay double the amount that we did last winter.

The only thing that made me reluctantly agree to the change was that they kept pushing the point about the age of the meter.  I just wish in hindsight I had stood my ground and refused.  

A very expensive lesson.

QrizB

melbury said:

Whilst I appreciate your various replies, I do not agree with them. 

As is your right.

melbury said:

You are saying that meters can become "uncalibrated" over time, but as pointed out, I have taken readings since we moved in and there has been nothing at all to signify that the gas meter was giving incorrect readings at any time, they were absolutely constant.

That in itself is suspicious. I would expect variation from season to season and from year to year. Any instrument giving "absolutely constant2 readings is suspect, IMO.

melbury said:

Also, how do you know that the meter they have fitted is correct?

It was certified when fitted.

If you think it is not reading correctly, you can ask your supplier to fit a check meter - a second meter, in series, measuring the same supply. There will be a fee to do so. If it turns out that your meter is incorrect, the fee will be refunded and your bills recalculated.

melbury said:

We have always had fairly high gas bills, despite not having the heating on for more than 6 hours per day in winter and 1 hour for hot water and were pleased that we managed to reduce usage by about 15% last winter by cutting right back and switching off all radiators in rooms not in use.  Now it looks like we will have to cut back even more or pay double the amount that we did last winter.

If your old meter was under-reading, you can see why your supplier wanted to replace it.

melbury said:

The only thing that made me reluctantly agree to the change was that they kept pushing the point about the age of the meter.  I just wish in hindsight I had stood my ground and refused. 

You do not have the right to refuse replacement of an end-of-life meter.

ArbitraryRandom

melbury said:

You are saying that meters can become "uncalibrated" over time, but as pointed out, I have taken readings since we moved in and there has been nothing at all to signify that the gas meter was giving incorrect readings at any time, they were absolutely constant.  

Are you suggesting in years like 2013/14 or 2017/18 your meter gave readings consistent with ones you took in 2015/16 or 2019/20? 

Because if you are... then it would suggest there was something wrong with your meter as those are some of the coldest vs warmest years in the last decade and you 'should' have seen wide variation in your usage. The problem is, without calibration in controlled conditions, you (anyone) has no real way of saying how wide those variations 'should' be if the meter is reading accurately.

There's basically three choices: 

1. Your old meter was recording incorrectly and the new meter is correct
2. Your old meter was recording correctly and the new meter is incorrect 
3. Your use has dramatically changed without you noticing (which could also include a leak somewhere in the system)

Hence my suggestion of a sanity test that you can carry out today to give you some indication of if your current meter is working correctly or if there's a problem with the system - It's not perfect, but if your meter records >1 unit for a 10 minute shower (when every other gas appliance is turned off) then it might be worth investigating further. (First get someone into check for leaks, then contact your supplier to test the meter.) 

But if during your test the meter records ~half a unit or less - then it's more than likely accurate and it's either you or your old boiler that's the problem.  

badmemory

Have you checked to make sure they have not left you with a gas leak like they did the last time they replaced mine.  If it is in a place with some throughput of foot traffic it can go unnoticed as mine did until I had a week off work & did not use that exit.  How we missed an explosion I do not know.

melbury

ArbitraryRandom said:

melbury said:

You are saying that meters can become "uncalibrated" over time, but as pointed out, I have taken readings since we moved in and there has been nothing at all to signify that the gas meter was giving incorrect readings at any time, they were absolutely constant.  

Are you suggesting in years like 2013/14 or 2017/18 your meter gave readings consistent with ones you took in 2015/16 or 2019/20? 

Because if you are... then it would suggest there was something wrong with your meter as those are some of the coldest vs warmest years in the last decade and you 'should' have seen wide variation in your usage. The problem is, without calibration in controlled conditions, you (anyone) has no real way of saying how wide those variations 'should' be if the meter is reading accurately.

There's basically three choices: 

1. Your old meter was recording incorrectly and the new meter is correct
2. Your old meter was recording correctly and the new meter is incorrect 
3. Your use has dramatically changed without you noticing (which could also include a leak somewhere in the system)

Hence my suggestion of a sanity test that you can carry out today to give you some indication of if your current meter is working correctly or if there's a problem with the system - It's not perfect, but if your meter records >1 unit for a 10 minute shower (when every other gas appliance is turned off) then it might be worth investigating further. (First get someone into check for leaks, then contact your supplier to test the meter.) 

But if during your test the meter records ~half a unit or less - then it's more than likely accurate and it's either you or your old boiler that's the problem.  

As I have tried to explain, we have recorded our readings every week in a little book since we moved in and we were the first residents of this house (sadly the current book only goes back to 2013), but the usage has been pretty consistent during the summer/winter periods throughout the years.  Of course they are not exactly the same, but last year we were able to make about a 15% reduction in gas usage.  

Every week over the summer the gas readings have been either 2 or 3 units per week, as previously stated just hot water on for 1 hour per day.  Following new meter being installed this has risen to 5 or 6 units per week. We haven't even put the heating on yet God forbid.  Our current boiler has been in for about 12 years and is serviced every year.