Warm homes discount

worrywart_3

https://www.gov.uk/check-if-youre-eligible-for-warm-home-discount?fbclid=IwAR1uKqrumZKLnmfGZ7OGrR4CtAz4xrrfK-ZfFSXGLHp0kw40Z0q6d9lBzMI

This went live today 

Chrysalis

Hmm interesting spreadsheet.

I will say it again this new WHD is very under funded, it really should have been a simple if you get means tested benefits then you get WHD, with it probably been tapered as well.

So floor space, property type and age of property are the 3 primary factors.

A house is more likely to be bigger then a flat so is more likely to get WHD, that we already knew, but this spreadsheet reveals its not as simple as that, it would appear houses have more generous thresholds compared to flats as well with less floor space required to be deemed high energy cost.

To me it looks like they have discounted electric costs, this is based on heating costs, so perhaps assumed summer costs are not causing people financial issues, and lots and lots of assumptions made on heating costs based on this algorithm.

My original bone of contention remains in that they have decided to scale the help based on property size but not based on income, so someone who is only just about deemed poor but in a big property is more likely to get WHD vs someone who is scraping the barrel but in a small flat.

Charities are challenging it but they have left it far too late.

So all I can say is good for those who are one the right side of the black line and empathy for those who are not.

NedS

Chrysalis said:

Hmm interesting spreadsheet.

I will say it again this new WHD is very under funded, it really should have been a simple if you get means tested benefits then you get WHD, with it probably been tapered as well.

So floor space, property type and age of property are the 3 primary factors.

A house is more likely to be bigger then a flat so is more likely to get WHD, that we already knew, but this spreadsheet reveals its not as simple as that, it would appear houses have more generous thresholds compared to flats as well with less floor space required to be deemed high energy cost.

To me it looks like they have discounted electric costs, this is based on heating costs, so perhaps assumed summer costs are not causing people financial issues, and lots and lots of assumptions made on heating costs based on this algorithm.

My original bone of contention remains in that they have decided to scale the help based on property size but not based on income, so someone who is only just about deemed poor but in a big property is more likely to get WHD vs someone who is scraping the barrel but in a small flat.

Charities are challenging it but they have left it far too late.

So all I can say is good for those who are one the right side of the black line and empathy for those who are not.

Rightly or wrongly, they have targeted it at those with higher energy costs. Obviously, someone with a larger older property is likely to have significantly higher heating costs than someone with a small modern 1 bed flat. Given someone with a small efficient property has already received a guaranteed £400 plus a likely additional £650 CoL payment if they are on means tested benefits, I wonder how much more help they need given their relatively low energy costs. Whereas someone with that larger older property may well be paying 5 times the amount in heating costs to heat their home, whereby the previous help, whilst welcome, may not have had such an impact on their bills.

There are no simple solutions in targeting support at those most in need, but I think they have done a reasonable job in correlating the 3 given factors to heating costs, and means-tested benefits is about the only reasonable test of income that can be applied. The only fairer way I can see would be to assess actual heating costs as a proportion of (disposable) income and scale the support such that no one pays more than x% of their income on heating costs - but then we'd all just turn the heating up to 25C knowing the government would pay anything over a certain threshold.

Spoonie_Turtle

worrywart_3 said:

https://www.gov.uk/check-if-youre-eligible-for-warm-home-discount?fbclid=IwAR1uKqrumZKLnmfGZ7OGrR4CtAz4xrrfK-ZfFSXGLHp0kw40Z0q6d9lBzMI

This went live today 

Oh that's fab, links to https://epc.opendatacommunities.org/login for full EPC info (finally found an actual date range for the age of the house!  EDIT: turns out the previous EPC has a different construction date, and next door's EPC has a different number of rooms and a different construction date despite us being a symmetrical pair of semi-detached houses ... aiyaiyai *facepalm*)

My results (no letter yet)

Please wait for a letter

Based on the benefits you claim and the type of property you live in, you are probably eligible for this year's Warm Home Discount Scheme.

What happens next

We will send letters to eligible households between November 2022 and mid-January 2023. You may automatically receive a letter.

If you do not receive a letter

If you have not received a letter by mid-January 2023, call us on 0800 107 8002 before 28 February 2023.

Or you can write to us at:

110552 Warm Home Discount Scheme
PO Box 26965
Glasgow
G1 9BW

Chrysalis said:

To me it looks like they have discounted electric costs, this is based on heating costs, so perhaps assumed summer costs are not causing people financial issues, and lots and lots of assumptions made on heating costs based on this algorithm.

I don't understand this bit?  How can you tell? 
It makes sense for it to be based on heating costs as it is a payment for winter and aimed at people needing to afford to be able to heat their homes.

So all I can say is good for those who are one the right side of the black line and empathy for those who are not.

Completely agree, especially with the empathy.

KxMx

Chrysalis said:

Hmm interesting spreadsheet.

I will say it again this new WHD is very under funded, it really should have been a simple if you get means tested benefits then you get WHD, with it probably been tapered as well.

So floor space, property type and age of property are the 3 primary factors.

A house is more likely to be bigger then a flat so is more likely to get WHD, that we already knew, but this spreadsheet reveals its not as simple as that, it would appear houses have more generous thresholds compared to flats as well with less floor space required to be deemed high energy cost.

To me it looks like they have discounted electric costs, this is based on heating costs, so perhaps assumed summer costs are not causing people financial issues, and lots and lots of assumptions made on heating costs based on this algorithm.

My original bone of contention remains in that they have decided to scale the help based on property size but not based on income, so someone who is only just about deemed poor but in a big property is more likely to get WHD vs someone who is scraping the barrel but in a small flat.

Charities are challenging it but they have left it far too late.

So all I can say is good for those who are one the right side of the black line and empathy for those who are not.

Charities challenged it at consultation stage, but as usual no notice taken by Government as they had decided upon the outcome they wanted anyway. 

michaels

KxMx said:

Chrysalis said:

Hmm interesting spreadsheet.

I will say it again this new WHD is very under funded, it really should have been a simple if you get means tested benefits then you get WHD, with it probably been tapered as well.

So floor space, property type and age of property are the 3 primary factors.

A house is more likely to be bigger then a flat so is more likely to get WHD, that we already knew, but this spreadsheet reveals its not as simple as that, it would appear houses have more generous thresholds compared to flats as well with less floor space required to be deemed high energy cost.

To me it looks like they have discounted electric costs, this is based on heating costs, so perhaps assumed summer costs are not causing people financial issues, and lots and lots of assumptions made on heating costs based on this algorithm.

My original bone of contention remains in that they have decided to scale the help based on property size but not based on income, so someone who is only just about deemed poor but in a big property is more likely to get WHD vs someone who is scraping the barrel but in a small flat.

Charities are challenging it but they have left it far too late.

So all I can say is good for those who are one the right side of the black line and empathy for those who are not.

Charities challenged it at consultation stage, but as usual no notice taken by Government as they had decided upon the outcome they wanted anyway. 

Don't know, seems to be a trade-off so 'extremely poor' but 'lower heating cost' and you can still get it.

KxMx

I've moved from a 3 bed house to ground floor one bed flat. Generously sized overall especially living room & bedroom, big bay window in both.
I don't qualify for WHD due to being deemed low energy. 
My income is ESA +UC. 

At the house only on the coldest days did I need to use the heating for more than an hour each time (usually morning and evening only) 
Here at the flat I'm already averaging 90 minutes, I can see that going up to 2 hours+ each time easily on those coldest days.

Currently living room is fairly reasonable after an hour but bedroom (naturally coldest room, no sun in summer after 10am) is just not comfortable after an hour so it has to stay on.
I'm already closing the 2 cracked windows and even the vents come 3pm.
Once it gets a bit colder I'll change that to all closed, apart from opening one window semi wide daily for a 15 minute spell to ventilate the room. 

Now this year I've put the second COL payment into my energy pot, and get the £400 discount over winter, but where does that leave me next winter? Absolutely not expecting repeat help and struggling to stay warm! 

pickapennyup

i have looked but when i put my post code in my address does not come up i have lived here for 25yrs so dont have a energy efficency amount

im on esa cb and tax credit and messing with the addresses says i should get it but guessing they dont have any details about my home i wont hear from them,anybody else in the same situation??

Spoonie_Turtle

pickapennyup said:

i have looked but when i put my post code in my address does not come up i have lived here for 25yrs so dont have a energy efficency amount

Which link do you mean?  Not everywhere has EPC information, which is one reason they didn't use it as a factor in determining which properties qualify.

For Tax Credits your annual income needs to be below the relevant threshold, just in case you weren't aware.

Income thresholds (£s) for Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit
                       No children 1 child 2 children 3 children 4 or more children
Single adult 16,047          20,837  25,627      30,417        35,207
Two+ adults 23,950         28,740  33,530      38,320        43,110 


(Hope that came out formatted right, the table is on p.9 of the eligibility statement https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1115631/whd-eligibility-statement-england-wales-2022.pdf )
Actually, I might just put it here anyway to make it easier

Chrysalis

NedS said:

Chrysalis said:

Hmm interesting spreadsheet.

I will say it again this new WHD is very under funded, it really should have been a simple if you get means tested benefits then you get WHD, with it probably been tapered as well.

So floor space, property type and age of property are the 3 primary factors.

A house is more likely to be bigger then a flat so is more likely to get WHD, that we already knew, but this spreadsheet reveals its not as simple as that, it would appear houses have more generous thresholds compared to flats as well with less floor space required to be deemed high energy cost.

To me it looks like they have discounted electric costs, this is based on heating costs, so perhaps assumed summer costs are not causing people financial issues, and lots and lots of assumptions made on heating costs based on this algorithm.

My original bone of contention remains in that they have decided to scale the help based on property size but not based on income, so someone who is only just about deemed poor but in a big property is more likely to get WHD vs someone who is scraping the barrel but in a small flat.

Charities are challenging it but they have left it far too late.

So all I can say is good for those who are one the right side of the black line and empathy for those who are not.

Rightly or wrongly, they have targeted it at those with higher energy costs. Obviously, someone with a larger older property is likely to have significantly higher heating costs than someone with a small modern 1 bed flat. Given someone with a small efficient property has already received a guaranteed £400 plus a likely additional £650 CoL payment if they are on means tested benefits, I wonder how much more help they need given their relatively low energy costs. Whereas someone with that larger older property may well be paying 5 times the amount in heating costs to heat their home, whereby the previous help, whilst welcome, may not have had such an impact on their bills.

There are no simple solutions in targeting support at those most in need, but I think they have done a reasonable job in correlating the 3 given factors to heating costs, and means-tested benefits is about the only reasonable test of income that can be applied. The only fairer way I can see would be to assess actual heating costs as a proportion of (disposable) income and scale the support such that no one pays more than x% of their income on heating costs - but then we'd all just turn the heating up to 25C knowing the government would pay anything over a certain threshold.

Well the flaws are obvious,

EPC rating is ignored except in a few cases where they lack the data for the normal method.
Its based on assumptions of cost not actual energy costs.
It takes no account of level of poverty.
Takes no account if expensive to run medical equipment is used.

Small doesnt necessarily mean efficient, and doesnt necessarily mean cheaper costs either.

Your suggestion is actually a good one but you you seem to have discredited your own idea.  "no one pays more than x% of their income on heating costs"

Ultimately if this was funded better, they could have removed the controversial energy costs requirement.  Then tapered it based on level of poverty so those who just miss out dont feel hard done by. (most means tested benefits are tapered for good reason).

Hopefully this gets fixed in future years.