Warm homes discount

Chrysalis

KxMx said:

Chrysalis said:

Hmm interesting spreadsheet.

I will say it again this new WHD is very under funded, it really should have been a simple if you get means tested benefits then you get WHD, with it probably been tapered as well.

So floor space, property type and age of property are the 3 primary factors.

A house is more likely to be bigger then a flat so is more likely to get WHD, that we already knew, but this spreadsheet reveals its not as simple as that, it would appear houses have more generous thresholds compared to flats as well with less floor space required to be deemed high energy cost.

To me it looks like they have discounted electric costs, this is based on heating costs, so perhaps assumed summer costs are not causing people financial issues, and lots and lots of assumptions made on heating costs based on this algorithm.

My original bone of contention remains in that they have decided to scale the help based on property size but not based on income, so someone who is only just about deemed poor but in a big property is more likely to get WHD vs someone who is scraping the barrel but in a small flat.

Charities are challenging it but they have left it far too late.

So all I can say is good for those who are one the right side of the black line and empathy for those who are not.

Charities challenged it at consultation stage, but as usual no notice taken by Government as they had decided upon the outcome they wanted anyway. 

You have any published proof of this?  As I seen someone else say it as well, but I found no evidence of them objecting during the consultation stage.

I read the consultation report which stated the energy suppliers challenged it, it stated charities took part but did not object.

The primary challenges from the suppliers were two things. Assuming I remember right, I have posted the document so I may get caught out here.

1 - That they were in a better position to know which customers are in fuel poverty given they have access to bills and the ability to check with the DWP on means tested status (as they did on old WHD).  I tend to agree with this one.  Especially as we seeing people get qualifying letters now who dont even pay an energy bill.

2 - The most vulnerable group of customers were single adults, this group having the most trouble  with energy debt.  But the WHD is the opposite in favouring large family homes.  This point I think isnt as important if point 1 was acted upon.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1065684/Warm_Home_Discount_Better_targeted_support_from_2022_Government_response.pdf

pickapennyup

Spoonie_Turtle said:

pickapennyup said:

i have looked but when i put my post code in my address does not come up i have lived here for 25yrs so dont have a energy efficency amount

Which link do you mean?  Not everywhere has EPC information, which is one reason they didn't use it as a factor in determining which properties qualify.

For Tax Credits your annual income needs to be below the relevant threshold, just in case you weren't aware.

Income thresholds (£s) for Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit
                       No children 1 child 2 children 3 children 4 or more children
Single adult 16,047          20,837  25,627      30,417        35,207
Two+ adults 23,950         28,740  33,530      38,320        43,110 


(Hope that came out formatted right, the table is on p.9 of the eligibility statement https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1115631/whd-eligibility-statement-england-wales-2022.pdf )
Actually, I might just put it here anyway to make it easier

this was the site that had no epc for my hoe https://www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate
yes my incomei s below 
so are you saying the eoc does not matter?

thanks

Spoonie_Turtle

pickapennyup said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

pickapennyup said:

i have looked but when i put my post code in my address does not come up i have lived here for 25yrs so dont have a energy efficency amount

Which link do you mean?  Not everywhere has EPC information, which is one reason they didn't use it as a factor in determining which properties qualify.

For Tax Credits your annual income needs to be below the relevant threshold, just in case you weren't aware.

Income thresholds (£s) for Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit
                       No children 1 child 2 children 3 children 4 or more children
Single adult 16,047          20,837  25,627      30,417        35,207
Two+ adults 23,950         28,740  33,530      38,320        43,110 


(Hope that came out formatted right, the table is on p.9 of the eligibility statement https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1115631/whd-eligibility-statement-england-wales-2022.pdf )
Actually, I might just put it here anyway to make it easier

this was the site that had no epc for my hoe https://www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate
yes my incomei s below 
so are you saying the eoc does not matter?

thanks

The EPC was not used as a factor in calculating whether properties qualify.  It was only linked because there is size and age information on there - if you don't otherwise know how large your home is, and/or how old it is, you won't know whether you're likely to qualify unless/until you get a letter.  What matters is the data the VOA holds though. 

There's a size discrepancy between what's on an EPC and what's actually used for calculating the energy cost score, I don't know if the eligibility checker compensates for that or not.  Also the age bands used for EPCs don't correspond with the age bands used for the WHD!  It's understandable then that the eligibility checker only gives results in terms of 'probably', not a definitive yes/no.

So in short, no the EPC doesn't actually matter, it was just there for size/age reference if needed but isn't 100% helpful there (or indeed 100% reliable - we live in one of two symmetrical semi-detached homes, yet our neighbours have a different age and different number of rooms on their EPC which is completely impossible!  So one of the two EPCs is wrong for certain).

pickapennyup

thanks well i know it was built in the 50's on the government site it said i should be eligible but n letter yet it said wait tillnexy year if not recieved

what an utter flap it is why they make it so difficult is madness
thank you for your time

NedS

pickapennyup said:

thanks well i know it was built in the 50's on the government site it said i should be eligible but n letter yet it said wait tillnexy year if not recieved

what an utter flap it is why they make it so difficult is madness
thank you for your time

I think the whole point of the new system is to make it less of a flap by automating the process and remove the need to apply, and be rejected if you missed out on the previous first come, first served basis. Anyone who is eligible should automatically receive the support, although obviously I understand there will be a lot of people who may have successfully applied under previous schemes who will now miss out.

MouldyOldDough

pickapennyup said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

pickapennyup said:

i have looked but when i put my post code in my address does not come up i have lived here for 25yrs so dont have a energy efficency amount

Which link do you mean?  Not everywhere has EPC information, which is one reason they didn't use it as a factor in determining which properties qualify.

For Tax Credits your annual income needs to be below the relevant threshold, just in case you weren't aware.

Income thresholds (£s) for Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit
                       No children 1 child 2 children 3 children 4 or more children
Single adult 16,047          20,837  25,627      30,417        35,207
Two+ adults 23,950         28,740  33,530      38,320        43,110 


(Hope that came out formatted right, the table is on p.9 of the eligibility statement https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1115631/whd-eligibility-statement-england-wales-2022.pdf )
Actually, I might just put it here anyway to make it easier

this was the site that had no epc for my hoe https://www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate
yes my incomei s below 
so are you saying the eoc does not matter?

thanks

You have forgotten SAVINGS - which they assume an interest rate of almost 20% is benefitted from !

I fell foul of that - 10 years ago

Spoonie_Turtle

MouldyOldDough said:

pickapennyup said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

pickapennyup said:

i have looked but when i put my post code in my address does not come up i have lived here for 25yrs so dont have a energy efficency amount

Which link do you mean?  Not everywhere has EPC information, which is one reason they didn't use it as a factor in determining which properties qualify.

For Tax Credits your annual income needs to be below the relevant threshold, just in case you weren't aware.

Income thresholds (£s) for Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit
                       No children 1 child 2 children 3 children 4 or more children
Single adult 16,047          20,837  25,627      30,417        35,207
Two+ adults 23,950         28,740  33,530      38,320        43,110 


(Hope that came out formatted right, the table is on p.9 of the eligibility statement https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1115631/whd-eligibility-statement-england-wales-2022.pdf )
Actually, I might just put it here anyway to make it easier

this was the site that had no epc for my hoe https://www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate
yes my incomei s below 
so are you saying the eoc does not matter?

thanks

You have forgotten SAVINGS - which they assume an interest rate of almost 20% is benefitted from !

I fell foul of that - 10 years ago

No, Tax Credits ignore savings completely.  That's one reason why they've been replaced with the much stricter UC.
Other means-tested benefits make a proportional deduction for savings over £6,000 so they are accounted for in benefit eligibility in the first place.

pickapennyup

ok sorry im getting confused according to the gox checker https://www.check-warm-home-discount-eligibility.service.gov.uk/region/?Id=CVK35ZRE it says to wait for a letter so does that mean i dont have to worry about an EPC and all info will come from Eon as where else would they get my info

and what happens if i dont hear from them i think it says to wait till next year
im on means tested esa ctc no savings

many thanks

Spoonie_Turtle

pickapennyup said:

ok sorry im getting confused according to the gox checker https://www.check-warm-home-discount-eligibility.service.gov.uk/region/?Id=CVK35ZRE it says to wait for a letter so does that mean i dont have to worry about an EPC and all info will come from Eon as where else would they get my info

and what happens if i dont hear from them i think it says to wait till next year
im on means tested esa ctc no savings

many thanks

The EPC is only so you can do the checker, nothing else to do with the WHD. 
And the checker itself is just a tool to know whether you probably qualify or not, it doesn't seem to tell anyone definitively.  Edit: although those whose name is not on the bill get told they will not qualify, but people have been getting letters without being the energy account holder.  So, who knows?

The government are using other information about properties, including data held by the Valuation Office Agency.  So yes you will just have to wait for a letter to find out - but that is the same for everyone anyway.

If you don't hear from them at all you can contact them, this is what it told me:

If you do not receive a letter

If you have not received a letter by mid-January 2023, call us on 0800 107 8002 before 28 February 2023.

Or you can write to us at:

110552 Warm Home Discount Scheme
PO Box 26965
Glasgow
G1 9BW

pickapennyup

Spoonie_Turtle said:

pickapennyup said:

ok sorry im getting confused according to the gox checker https://www.check-warm-home-discount-eligibility.service.gov.uk/region/?Id=CVK35ZRE it says to wait for a letter so does that mean i dont have to worry about an EPC and all info will come from Eon as where else would they get my info

and what happens if i dont hear from them i think it says to wait till next year
im on means tested esa ctc no savings

many thanks

The EPC is only so you can do the checker, nothing else to do with the WHD. 
And the checker itself is just a tool to know whether you probably qualify or not, it doesn't seem to tell anyone definitively.  Edit: although those whose name is not on the bill get told they will not qualify, but people have been getting letters without being the energy account holder.  So, who knows?

The government are using other information about properties, including data held by the Valuation Office Agency.  So yes you will just have to wait for a letter to find out - but that is the same for everyone anyway.

If you don't hear from them at all you can contact them, this is what it told me:

If you do not receive a letter

If you have not received a letter by mid-January 2023, call us on 0800 107 8002 before 28 February 2023.

Or you can write to us at:

110552 Warm Home Discount Scheme
PO Box 26965
Glasgow
G1 9BW

crystal clear many thanks