EV Discussion thread

Petriix

For about the thousandth time this week: WBAC offers are not how much a car is worth. They offered someone under £1,000 for their 2018 Zoe... They use an algorithm with a bunch of inputs. They may well have manually dialed down EV offers based on their current inventory and market uncertainty. The only relevant information is that now is a bad time to use WBAC to sell an EV.

Solarchaser

JKenH said:

'Elon Musk has made me embarrassed to drive my Tesla now'

"It's been very depressing, and sometimes embarrassing to be driving this car around," says Anne Marie, a former journalist who lives in Connecticut and wrote an article about her discomfort. "I wondered if people were making a judgement about me that I wasn't looking for."

Indie Grant, who works in the insurance industry in New Zealand, ruled out a Tesla due to Mr Musk's politics when buying an electric car last year, opting for a Peugeot instead. 

"With him being so tied to the brand, buying a Tesla feels very much like a passive but regular announcement of 'I think Elon is great. I love everything he does,'" the 35-year-old says.

"That really wasn't the message we wanted to give and with so many options, taking that out of the running didn't affect the choices too much."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64376727

There is a certain sector for whom Elon Musk’s opinions are now a reason not to buy a Tesla. I do find this a little strange for 2 reasons. 

Firstly, I buy a car because I perceive it to be the one that best satisfies my needs/desires - not to be seen to be making a political statement. 

Secondly, Elon Musk is still basically the same outrageous Elon Musk who a few months ago was perceived (along with GT) as doing more than any other individual to save the planet. Can someone who believed in what he was doing for climate change (and still is) be so shallow as to now reject Tesla because of Musk’s views on other matters? Well, maybe if virtue signalling is your thing, you can and of course in that case you will go out and signal to the world just how virtuous you are. 

I think in general quoting a person or even a couple of people as an opinion of everyone is always a bit weird.

You are right leaning, would you be happy if I quote farage and state it as what you think?
What about Tommy Robinson or whatever his name is this week, or the leader of the bnp or edl (or sdl)

Lots of people don't like musk.
I dont like musk, and yes the car is absolutely inextricably linked to him, in a way that the f150 is not linked to whoever owns Ford or a toymota is not linked to Mr. Toyoda, denying that is kinda daft tbh.

The car has a few annoying flaws, but as I was recently reminded when driving a polestar, it is streaks ahead of other EVs.

Musk doing the most for climate change... aye right.

But anyway, "virtue signalling", is essentially just the far rights buzz word response to the word "gammon", it makes the vast majority of people who hear it be embarrassed for the person saying it.

Grumpy_chap

Petriix said:

For about the thousandth time this week: WBAC offers are not how much a car is worth. They offered someone under £1,000 for their 2018 Zoe... 

That is exactly what that particular car is worth to WBAC at this point in time.

The WBAC prices also give a very quick rough-and-ready indication of the likely trade value of the car elsewhere since neither WBAC or an alternative trader can afford to drift all that far apart - either one would never get to buy any cars or the other would never sell any cars.
Referencing the movement in value of a specific car over time using WBAC is as valid an indicator of trend as anything else.

Now, that Zoe.  What condition was it?  What mileage was it?  Was it a battery lease option? 
I can see that a well-used battery lease Zoe might not have a significant value if there is also a lease cost of, say, £100 potentially forever

JKenH

Solarchaser said:

JKenH said:

'Elon Musk has made me embarrassed to drive my Tesla now'

"It's been very depressing, and sometimes embarrassing to be driving this car around," says Anne Marie, a former journalist who lives in Connecticut and wrote an article about her discomfort. "I wondered if people were making a judgement about me that I wasn't looking for."

Indie Grant, who works in the insurance industry in New Zealand, ruled out a Tesla due to Mr Musk's politics when buying an electric car last year, opting for a Peugeot instead. 

"With him being so tied to the brand, buying a Tesla feels very much like a passive but regular announcement of 'I think Elon is great. I love everything he does,'" the 35-year-old says.

"That really wasn't the message we wanted to give and with so many options, taking that out of the running didn't affect the choices too much."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64376727

There is a certain sector for whom Elon Musk’s opinions are now a reason not to buy a Tesla. I do find this a little strange for 2 reasons. 

Firstly, I buy a car because I perceive it to be the one that best satisfies my needs/desires - not to be seen to be making a political statement. 

Secondly, Elon Musk is still basically the same outrageous Elon Musk who a few months ago was perceived (along with GT) as doing more than any other individual to save the planet. Can someone who believed in what he was doing for climate change (and still is) be so shallow as to now reject Tesla because of Musk’s views on other matters? Well, maybe if virtue signalling is your thing, you can and of course in that case you will go out and signal to the world just how virtuous you are. 

I think in general quoting a person or even a couple of people as an opinion of everyone is always a bit weird.

You are right leaning, would you be happy if I quote farage and state it as what you think?
What about Tommy Robinson or whatever his name is this week, or the leader of the bnp or edl (or sdl)

Lots of people don't like musk.
I dont like musk, and yes the car is absolutely inextricably linked to him, in a way that the f150 is not linked to whoever owns Ford or a toymota is not linked to Mr. Toyoda, denying that is kinda daft tbh.

The car has a few annoying flaws, but as I was recently reminded when driving a polestar, it is streaks ahead of other EVs.

Musk doing the most for climate change... aye right.

But anyway, "virtue signalling", is essentially just the far rights buzz word response to the word "gammon", it makes the vast majority of people who hear it be embarrassed for the person saying it.

I’ve obviously hit a nerve. BTW it was the BBC who quoted these 2 individuals and went on to say

Once hailed as the secret to Tesla's success, Elon Musk now appears to be one of its biggest problems, as his steady stream of politically charged social media posts alienates key parts of Tesla's customer base, just as increased competition starts to eat away at the firm's dominance of the electric car market.

It is the BBC making the link between liberals being turned off by Elon Musk and demand for Tesla cars. 

No where did I “state it [these opinions] as what you think”. I wasn’t replying to any comment from you, or name-checking you, so why are you so offended? And why do you feel the need to impute that my views favour the likes of Tommy Robinson (who I detest) or the EDL (ditto)? Now, Our Nige is another matter. 

As for “Musk doing the most for climate change... aye right”, what other individual has done as much in practical terms? Without Musk and Tesla how many EVs would there be on the road today? They are both rhetorical questions so no need to waste time on responding there. 

1961Nick

All Tesla have to do is to bring a Model 1 or 2 to market & instantly double demand. 

JKenH

1961Nick said:

All Tesla have to do is to bring a Model 1 or 2 to market & instantly double demand. 

But why is it taking so long?

Solarchaser

JKenH said:

Solarchaser said:

JKenH said:

'Elon Musk has made me embarrassed to drive my Tesla now'

"It's been very depressing, and sometimes embarrassing to be driving this car around," says Anne Marie, a former journalist who lives in Connecticut and wrote an article about her discomfort. "I wondered if people were making a judgement about me that I wasn't looking for."

Indie Grant, who works in the insurance industry in New Zealand, ruled out a Tesla due to Mr Musk's politics when buying an electric car last year, opting for a Peugeot instead. 

"With him being so tied to the brand, buying a Tesla feels very much like a passive but regular announcement of 'I think Elon is great. I love everything he does,'" the 35-year-old says.

"That really wasn't the message we wanted to give and with so many options, taking that out of the running didn't affect the choices too much."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64376727

There is a certain sector for whom Elon Musk’s opinions are now a reason not to buy a Tesla. I do find this a little strange for 2 reasons. 

Firstly, I buy a car because I perceive it to be the one that best satisfies my needs/desires - not to be seen to be making a political statement. 

Secondly, Elon Musk is still basically the same outrageous Elon Musk who a few months ago was perceived (along with GT) as doing more than any other individual to save the planet. Can someone who believed in what he was doing for climate change (and still is) be so shallow as to now reject Tesla because of Musk’s views on other matters? Well, maybe if virtue signalling is your thing, you can and of course in that case you will go out and signal to the world just how virtuous you are. 

I think in general quoting a person or even a couple of people as an opinion of everyone is always a bit weird.

You are right leaning, would you be happy if I quote farage and state it as what you think?
What about Tommy Robinson or whatever his name is this week, or the leader of the bnp or edl (or sdl)

Lots of people don't like musk.
I dont like musk, and yes the car is absolutely inextricably linked to him, in a way that the f150 is not linked to whoever owns Ford or a toymota is not linked to Mr. Toyoda, denying that is kinda daft tbh.

The car has a few annoying flaws, but as I was recently reminded when driving a polestar, it is streaks ahead of other EVs.

Musk doing the most for climate change... aye right.

But anyway, "virtue signalling", is essentially just the far rights buzz word response to the word "gammon", it makes the vast majority of people who hear it be embarrassed for the person saying it.

I’ve obviously hit a nerve. BTW it was the BBC who quoted these 2 individuals and went on to say

Once hailed as the secret to Tesla's success, Elon Musk now appears to be one of its biggest problems, as his steady stream of politically charged social media posts alienates key parts of Tesla's customer base, just as increased competition starts to eat away at the firm's dominance of the electric car market.

It is the BBC making the link between liberals being turned off by Elon Musk and demand for Tesla cars. 

No where did I “state it [these opinions] as what you think”. I wasn’t replying to any comment from you, or name-checking you, so why are you so offended? And why do you feel the need to impute that my views favour the likes of Tommy Robinson (who I detest) or the EDL (ditto)? Now, Our Nige is another matter. 

As for “Musk doing the most for climate change... aye right”, what other individual has done as much in practical terms? Without Musk and Tesla how many EVs would there be on the road today? They are both rhetorical questions so no need to waste time on responding there. 

Hit a nerve?
I thought it was hilarious, especially when you said virtue signalling.

I'm Scottish Ken, the bbc stopped being a bastion of anything other than the current government's mouthpiece a long time ago.

Elon has turned off alot of people with his recent dummy spitting incidents and the whole twitter debacle.

Interesting you took it as a slight against you for the edl bampots, when what I said was would you be happy..... hit a nerve 🤪😂
Sorry, didn't mean to offend your farage supporters club, he is to England what George Galloway is to Scotland, no more than an opportunist praying on folks insecurities for his own gain.

All musk has done is sell higher end electric cars, Nissan were already selling them mainstream before he came on the scene.
Don't get me wrong, tesla has made some bloody good advances in the technology, but hardly makes him the pinnacle of climate change.

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

For about the thousandth time this week: WBAC offers are not how much a car is worth. They offered someone under £1,000 for their 2018 Zoe... 

That is exactly what that particular car is worth to WBAC at this point in time.

The WBAC prices also give a very quick rough-and-ready indication of the likely trade value of the car elsewhere since neither WBAC or an alternative trader can afford to drift all that far apart - either one would never get to buy any cars or the other would never sell any cars.
Referencing the movement in value of a specific car over time using WBAC is as valid an indicator of trend as anything else.

Now, that Zoe.  What condition was it?  What mileage was it?  Was it a battery lease option? 
I can see that a well-used battery lease Zoe might not have a significant value if there is also a lease cost of, say, £100 potentially forever

WBAC are part of the same group as British Car Auctions and Cinch and are effectively a conduit to feed good condition cars for Cinch to retail or trade cars for BCA to auction. Retail demand for certain EVs has stalled (temporarily) so Cinch don’t need the supply and they aren’t selling to the trade at auction because the trade already have EV stock on their hands which they don’t need to replace. It is simply supply and demand. The gap between trade and retail prices will have to close as stated above but the trade are desperately clinging on to the high retail prices as they don’t want to book a big loss. The garage where I bought my Golf have 3 Tesla Model 3s in stock and I think they are the same 3 as were in stock back in October. The prices have dropped twice since I started making a record in December but not enough. They can’t move them on in the trade because the trade aren’t buying them so they just sit there in the hope that so who hasn’t done their homework comes along and buys them.

Now

28December

JKenH

Retailers impose used EV stocking ban as values slump

Cap HPI said that remarketing centres had averaged an 80% conversion rate for their ICE stock during January had seen the conversion rate for EVs average closer to 20%, stating: “Even these vendors selling the c.20% of cars have had to take some pain on price.”

It added: “Many retailers have introduced buying bans on EV product, with the risk of them sitting on their forecourts for an unpalatable period just too high to buy at almost any price.”

https://www.am-online.com/news/used-cars/2023/01/31/festive-rush-to-stock-ice-used-cars-saw-25-uplift-in-auction-sales

JKenH

Tesla dispute - top auto insurers writing off rather than repairing crashed Tesla EVs

Data showed that insurers had totaled more than 120 Model Ys after they met collisions – meaning the insurers decided it would be cheaper to scrap the Tesla EV altogether and reimburse the owner rather than pay for its repair. These insurers then listed them at auction from December 2022 to early January this year.

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/breaking-news/tesla-dispute--top-auto-insurers-writing-off-rather-than-repairing-crashed-tesla-evs-434648.aspx

Is this going to increase or reduce insurance costs? High salvage values of Teslas may be swinging the decision to treat the vehicles as a constructive total loss, which may actually be a good thing, or are insurers writing them off to avoid the cost of hire cars while they wait for spare parts from Tesla (which can take a while), which is not so good? Or are Teslas just very expensive to repair? I have seen complaints from some people on social media that Tesla insurance costs have gone up.