EV Discussion thread

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

Which electric cars do more than 250 miles on a charge?

42 models apparently.
I'll be damned if I'm going to click through 42 pages of slow loading advert laden stuff to find out what they all are.
The article would be better with a summary table first and then the detail pages for each model

thevilla

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Which electric cars do more than 250 miles on a charge?

42 models apparently.
I'll be damned if I'm going to click through 42 pages of slow loading advert laden stuff to find out what they all are.
The article would be better with a summary table first and then the detail pages for each model

https://github.com/pi-hole/

michaels

JKenH said:

Which electric cars do more than 250 miles on a charge?

I hadn’t realised just how many EVs there are available* with a 250 mile range.

https://www.whatcar.com/news/real-range-which-electric-cars-do-more-than-250-miles-on-a-charge/n24721

* see my next post

ID4 is down as 322 miles.  I drove one in the dry, 10 degrees, mix of motorway and A roads, max 75 but generally less than 70 on the motorway and it got about 225 miles. I normally drive a leaf 24 so I know about eking out max miles from an EV so mostly no heating or AC etc.

This is typical not a VW thang.

EricMears

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Which electric cars do more than 250 miles on a charge?

42 models apparently.
I'll be damned if I'm going to click through 42 pages of slow loading advert laden stuff to find out what they all are.
The article would be better with a summary table first and then the detail pages for each model

I couldn't even see how to get all 42 models !   However when I saw this "We've presented the official ranges of each car listed, as determined by the WLTP test cycle"   I stopped looking

Grumpy_chap

There still seem to be some odd cars being released into the market.

Still new models only with ICE (including "mild hybrid") options available - these seem like a mistake given the rapid progress towards EV, the cars will not have life-longevity to provide the return on development investment.

Then some EV's being launched that look attractive but have short range, the latest example I have seen is the Mazda MX30, seems like a nice package and high quality but very small battery resulting in 124 mile range (official figures).  That means real world range under 100 miles.  Yet the car is fitted with motorway-tools such as adaptive cruise control.  While the 100 mile range will meet the regular commute for many people, there is also a need to have enough flexibility to meet the trip to relatives, family holiday etc.

Martyn1981

Yeah short range for the MX 30, and the Honda E, both of which have seen sales collapse. Lots of decent BEV's now with 200-250 mile ranges.

Weirdly, the US EPA ratings seem reasonable, whilst the WLTP needs about 12% knocked off, and the Chinese rating is done driving downhill - I assume!

Edit - I think China still uses the New European Driving Cycle, NEDC, or 'not even damn close', and needs to be reduced about 30%.

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

Yeah short range for the MX 30, and the Honda E, both of which have seen sales collapse. Lots of decent BEV's now with 200-250 mile ranges.

I can see that there would be some market for small EV's (like the Honda E) with short range when the target market is second-car use and the expectation is that there would be a main family car in addition.  The Honda E meets this brief by being city car sized, but not at the £37k price tag it currently carries, and no need for all the "highway" features such as lane-keeping assist on a car that is destined for the school run and the supermarket run.

This market is probably quite well catered for by cars such as the early Leaf's.

The MX 30 is a little bit different to the Honda E in that it is to all intents and purposes a proper family car and first car / only car solution.  In fact, if the battery was changed to offer, say, a 64kWh battery standard and 90kWh option, the car would be transformed in appeal.

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Yeah short range for the MX 30, and the Honda E, both of which have seen sales collapse. Lots of decent BEV's now with 200-250 mile ranges.

I can see that there would be some market for small EV's (like the Honda E) with short range when the target market is second-car use and the expectation is that there would be a main family car in addition.  The Honda E meets this brief by being city car sized, but not at the £37k price tag it currently carries, and no need for all the "highway" features such as lane-keeping assist on a car that is destined for the school run and the supermarket run.

This market is probably quite well catered for by cars such as the early Leaf's.

The MX 30 is a little bit different to the Honda E in that it is to all intents and purposes a proper family car and first car / only car solution.  In fact, if the battery was changed to offer, say, a 64kWh battery standard and 90kWh option, the car would be transformed in appeal.

Yep, their problem isn't the looks, quality or range, it's that they are priced as 'normal' ranged BEV's. Had they come out 5yrs earlier, they would have stood a better chance.

For second car use, and city runabout, I think the Renault Twingo looks quite good, with a 23kWh battery, and 120 miles (in best circumstances). But looks like they'll be priced at €23k or more depending on country (€28k Germany), so VFM, v's a MG, or a larger Leaf, is questionable. But the more the merrier.

Renault Twingo ZE First Impressions — Good Looking Second Car

Grumpy_chap

That Twingo looks very viable if, indeed, it lands at EURO23k, so £20k sterling it will compete well against the Fiesta ICE (from £18k) or even more favourably against the true city cars such as the (now defunct) Ka.

On the subject of small city EV's, I think there was an attempt by VW to relaunch the Citigo/Up as an all-EV, but they landed it at £30k which was absurd...

As far as I can tell the "E" is the only EV for Honda, the MX 30 is the only EV for Mazda.  There seem to be some manufacturers (Ford is another one) that are remaining committed to the ICE and just producing the solo EV model to get a tick in the box and not really worrying about the car being any good, or available, or priced correctly because, well "It's EV innit - that'll never catch on".  I suspect in this revolution, we will see some big names fail.

I like proven technology so I'm just dashing out to the stables...

Martyn1981

Dangerous to bet on who goes first, but I've got my doubts about Honda cars. Though the larger company is so huge, that might be enough to keep them going.

Don't get me wrong, I thought the Honda E was gorgeous, and a lovely size etc, when launched, but range for price too poor. Their next BEV isn't due till 2026, but they do have a rebadged GM due in the US around 2024. I'm not sure that's fast enough.

You're right about Ford (and GM may be similar (due to product problems)), they talk a good talk, but are still well behind the curve in actual BEV sales / BEV % of sales. In the US, where Tesla has about 70% of the BEV market, Ford (and GM) are in a tough fight for 2nd to 4th place with Hyundai/Kia, who do 'get it'. And to mis-quote Game of Thrones - "BYD is coming".