EV Discussion thread

Martyn1981

Hi GC, it's funny what you say, as I had the same philosophical thoughts about the title 'second car' when we got the 24kWh Leaf (70 miles range at best). The petrol Zafira was the 'first car' since it could do what the Leaf could, plus more. Yet the Leaf was so nice to drive, and powerful (thanks to the torque curve, or lack of) that we used it for almost everything. When we traded the Zafira in for a 28kWh IONIQ 10 months later, it still had 3/4's of the second petrol fillup since getting the Leaf. Disclaimer - half of that period was during the Covid lockdown. There were times when we simply idled the Zafira for 5 mins, and drove it round the block with some stabs of the brake, just in case, as it was getting so little use.

Oops, forgot the moral of the story, which is a shorter range SH BEV makes for an excellent second / first (delete as appropriate) car. But sadly supply is limited and prices are not great.

Grumpy_chap

The oxymoronic dilemma is that range limitation (real or imagined) drives EV towards lower mileage use while the price premium to acquire versus lower cost to operate drives EV to high annual mileage.

That is certainly the case for me.
High mileage commuting 70 miles each way every day meant the pay-back for an EV made sense before COVID.
Now, my total annual mileage is much reduced yet the one day per week is still 70 miles each way.  I still want a comfortable car with up to date toys.  I still won't want to be stopping on the commute home in the depths of winter, so the Lexus seen earlier in the week won't cut it.

I'm fortunate enough that I could buy a brand new car, but I don't really want to spend that sort of money if I don't have to (plus used EV's don't save much versus new at the moment because of low supply).
Because of the long journey, I'd be restricted to a long range EV option - TM3, iPace, Q4 E-Tron etc.

It leaves me rather conflicted.  The EV option is going to mean an outlay towards £50k.
An ICE option would offer loads of comfort and safety for under £30k, like these random examples
.  https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210050419970
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209270164776

Making the maths add up is a challenge.  I think, environmentally, fewer miles per year which means EV might not work financially is better than massively more miles which would work financially with an EV.

I am really hoping that, as the months roll on, more and more options will be available for an EV solution and, hopefully, more options for a normal saloon / hatch / estate car rather than all these big SUV style EV's that seem to dominate.
The MG offerings are the next best thing to the TM3, but sacrificing a bit of space and a lot of safety / luxury / quality to meet the price point.

Martyn1981

GC, I know this is all wishfull thinking, but hopefully as supply constraints lift, the SR TM3 might go back down to £42k .... MIGHT? That's got a solid 200+ mile range excluding extremely low temps on the motorway (EV-database suggest 170 miles @ -10C), and should be reliable for 240+. But, again, wishful thinking, as one or two options, plus delivery etc will get you to £45k+.

But it's just a thought, since you're not in a rush, and the enlarged battery TM3 base vehicle still has significant range, certainly for your 140 mile worst case scenario.

Hope you don't mind me thinking out loud. Totally agree that in your situation, there's no need to rush any decisions, just enjoy the show for now till more choice arrives.

70sbudgie

@Grumpy_chap   Is there no option to charge at your destination? Rather than on the commute?

I read most of your comments as your journey being a round trip of 70 miles and was about to comment on my experience of EV commuting 60mile round trip, when I realised that you're actually talking about a 140mile round trip. The ability to charge at your destination could be the difference between comfortably doable and a bit too close for comfort.

Grumpy_chap

70sbudgie said:

@Grumpy_chap   Is there no option to charge at your destination? Rather than on the commute?

I read most of your comments as your journey being a round trip of 70 miles and was about to comment on my experience of EV commuting 60mile round trip, when I realised that you're actually talking about a 140mile round trip. The ability to charge at your destination could be the difference between comfortably doable and a bit too close for comfort.

Thanks, but unfortunately no work place charging.

If there was, the Lexus I saw in the week would have been mine:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209270163015

Would only have been days in the worst weather that needed destination charge.

I am actually thinking to keep stretching out the Focus which has now reached bangernomics territory until such time as a suitable EV is available and in financial reach.  The Focus was only ever intended as a stop-gap when purchased (in 2016) but was soo good initially that I just kept it.  It now is reaching end of life but does work.  The risk of this strategy is that the Focus is only one big bill away from the scrappy and that  event would mean buying a replacement that was immediately available and would likely force an ICE.

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

70sbudgie said:

@Grumpy_chap   Is there no option to charge at your destination? Rather than on the commute?

I read most of your comments as your journey being a round trip of 70 miles and was about to comment on my experience of EV commuting 60mile round trip, when I realised that you're actually talking about a 140mile round trip. The ability to charge at your destination could be the difference between comfortably doable and a bit too close for comfort.

Thanks, but unfortunately no work place charging.

If there was, the Lexus I saw in the week would have been mine:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209270163015

Would only have been days in the worst weather that needed destination charge.

I am actually thinking to keep stretching out the Focus which has now reached bangernomics territory until such time as a suitable EV is available and in financial reach.  The Focus was only ever intended as a stop-gap when purchased (in 2016) but was soo good initially that I just kept it.  It now is reaching end of life but does work.  The risk of this strategy is that the Focus is only one big bill away from the scrappy and that  event would mean buying a replacement that was immediately available and would likely force an ICE.

If you live near Canterbury (I assume you do from the location of the car you looked at) you might find this video from Mr EV of interest. 

https://youtu.be/KXIjtcMKHB0

Grumpy_chap

Thanks @JKenH - that was an interesting video.  I think the trouble with Local Authorities can sometimes be that they are too scared to rock the boat and do anything that might upset anyone so, rather than bold progression, the Local Authority falls into the trap of just managing the day-to-day administration of the delivery functions.  Hence, Canterbury won't get EV charging sorted because someone might see that as "disposal of land" and be upset.  I'd not even class a 10-year lease of some parking spaces to EV charge infrastructure as "disposal of land" - I'd see it as enhancing the local infrastructure.

I don't live in Canterbury - I actually saw a car at the local forecourt, which was a less well-equipped model and higher price than the one I then found online at Canterbury.  Speaking with both the local Lexus dealer and the branch in Canterbury, both were cautious about the 140-mile round trip in the depths of winter.  Both said it would be fine most of the year.  That seems to match the thoughts in this thread.

The one at the local dealer's forecourt was this one:
https://www.curriemotors.co.uk/lexus/used-cars/15011729-lexus-ux-300e-150k-w-54.3-k-wh-5dr-e-cvt-premium-plus-pack/

lisyloo

Grumpy_chap said:

The oxymoronic dilemma is that range limitation (real or imagined) drives EV towards lower mileage use while the price premium to acquire versus lower cost to operate drives EV to high annual mileage.

That is certainly the case for me.
High mileage commuting 70 miles each way every day meant the pay-back for an EV made sense before COVID.
Now, my total annual mileage is much reduced yet the one day per week is still 70 miles each way.  I still want a comfortable car with up to date toys.  I still won't want to be stopping on the commute home in the depths of winter, so the Lexus seen earlier in the week won't cut it.

I'm fortunate enough that I could buy a brand new car, but I don't really want to spend that sort of money if I don't have to (plus used EV's don't save much versus new at the moment because of low supply).
Because of the long journey, I'd be restricted to a long range EV option - TM3, iPace, Q4 E-Tron etc.

It leaves me rather conflicted.  The EV option is going to mean an outlay towards £50k.
An ICE option would offer loads of comfort and safety for under £30k, like these random examples
.  https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210050419970
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209270164776

Making the maths add up is a challenge.  I think, environmentally, fewer miles per year which means EV might not work financially is better than massively more miles which would work financially with an EV.

I am really hoping that, as the months roll on, more and more options will be available for an EV solution and, hopefully, more options for a normal saloon / hatch / estate car rather than all these big SUV style EV's that seem to dominate.
The MG offerings are the next best thing to the TM3, but sacrificing a bit of space and a lot of safety / luxury / quality to meet the price point.

Complete rookie here but for my benefit can get be a bit more specific about what’s not good enough about this please

https://www.mg.co.uk/new-cars/new-mg-zs-ev?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4omaBhDqARIsADXULuXbPFZM2UcB6QZSMoovvh0kkYEK-oMkv2xAWtnqw3lczH-Y_44jfckaAuFtEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Grumpy_chap

lisyloo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

The oxymoronic dilemma is that range limitation (real or imagined) drives EV towards lower mileage use while the price premium to acquire versus lower cost to operate drives EV to high annual mileage.

That is certainly the case for me.
High mileage commuting 70 miles each way every day meant the pay-back for an EV made sense before COVID.
Now, my total annual mileage is much reduced yet the one day per week is still 70 miles each way.  I still want a comfortable car with up to date toys.  I still won't want to be stopping on the commute home in the depths of winter, so the Lexus seen earlier in the week won't cut it.

I'm fortunate enough that I could buy a brand new car, but I don't really want to spend that sort of money if I don't have to (plus used EV's don't save much versus new at the moment because of low supply).
Because of the long journey, I'd be restricted to a long range EV option - TM3, iPace, Q4 E-Tron etc.

It leaves me rather conflicted.  The EV option is going to mean an outlay towards £50k.
An ICE option would offer loads of comfort and safety for under £30k, like these random examples
.  https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210050419970
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209270164776

Making the maths add up is a challenge.  I think, environmentally, fewer miles per year which means EV might not work financially is better than massively more miles which would work financially with an EV.

I am really hoping that, as the months roll on, more and more options will be available for an EV solution and, hopefully, more options for a normal saloon / hatch / estate car rather than all these big SUV style EV's that seem to dominate.
The MG offerings are the next best thing to the TM3, but sacrificing a bit of space and a lot of safety / luxury / quality to meet the price point.

Complete rookie here but for my benefit can get be a bit more specific about what’s not good enough about this please

https://www.mg.co.uk/new-cars/new-mg-zs-ev?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4omaBhDqARIsADXULuXbPFZM2UcB6QZSMoovvh0kkYEK-oMkv2xAWtnqw3lczH-Y_44jfckaAuFtEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

The MG EV's are excellent for the price point.
I was very tempted by the MG5 until I found out the NCAP rating is zero.
There is nothing "wrong" with the MGs but they are rather more of a budget brand than mid-market or premium.
I have said before that the MG EVs do seem to be the best alternative to the Tesla vehicles.
There are others in the forum that own various models of the MG EVs and hopefully one will see the thread and share their experiences shortly.  There have not be many poor experiences shared.

silverwhistle

I can't comment on winter driving on my MG4 SR yet, but the efficiency shown on the driver display looks good to me after the ZS, where I had to calculate myself, but was probably mid 3s unless my friend was driving, and she rather hammers it across the New Forest when we go flying at Bournemouth. No such trip yet in the MG4 so it will be interesting what mpkwh I can achieve on a slightly longer run; only done 25/30 mile runs so far.

It occurs to me that the MG4 longer range, with more goodies too, could do your commute. Perhaps drop the speed a little when it's freezing, but it does strike me that the day a week commute is rather a tail wagging the dog. I once charged 1.7kWh to make sure I got home ok, but actually didn't need it anyway and a little flexibility might deal with rare events, and save you thousands to boot.