EV Discussion thread

JKenH

Fake news or a real issue? Either way, it’s more negativity. 

Weak mobile signals could hamper electric car charging – report

Electric vehicle (EV) drivers could struggle to use around two-thirds of Britain’s most common type of public chargepoint because of patchy mobile signals, according to a report.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/lifestyle/motors/6426066/weak-mobile-signals-could-hamper-electric-car-charging-report/

michaels

JKenH said:

Two related articles from Drive. While Elon Musk has accused Reuters of “lying” in reporting that the new Tesla small car has been canned, there may be some substance in the story. Previously there had been discussion within Tesla around whether the next new vehicle should purely be a robotaxi but executives had convinced Mr Musk to develop a platform capable of being delivered as a drivers car or robotaxi or both. At one stage it seemed like the next vehicle would be the Model 2 but now that may have changed in the face of Chinese competition with the emphasis on development now swinging back to the robotaxi. All speculation of course. 

Tesla autonomous ‘robotaxi’ to be unveiled in August – Elon Musk

Tesla plans to unveil its new 'robotaxi' – an autonomous compact car without a steering wheel or pedals – on 8 August 2024, company CEO Elon Musk has announced.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-robotaxi-unveiled-in-august-musk/

Tesla’s $US25,000 small car axed to go all-in on autonomous taxi – report

A new report has claimed plans for the cheapest and smallest Tesla electric vehicle yet have been scrapped to focus on an autonomous version without a steering wheel or pedals.

According to an internal memo seen by the news agency's sources, the unnamed manager of the vehicle program said "suppliers should halt all further activities related to H422/NV91," referring to the external and internal codenames respectively for the project.

In his biography of the executive released last year, author Walter Isaacson – who shadowed the Tesla boss for two years – wrote of Musk's desire in 2022 to skip the more conventional model, and develop the small car as an autonomous vehicle only.

But top Tesla executives – including design boss Franz von Holzhausen, and vehicle engineering chief Lars Moravy – convinced Musk to play it safe and offer two versions.

"We want to make sure we are assessing the risk with you. If we go down a path of having no steering wheel, and FSD [Full Self-Driving] is not ready, we won't be able to put them on the road ... our proposal is to bake them in right now but remove them when we are allowed to," von Holzhausen reportedly told Musk in a 2022 meeting.

Musk is said to have shaken his head – and when assured the driver controls could be "small" and removed "pretty easily" – the outspoken Tesla CEO reportedly said: "No. No. NO ... No mirrors, no pedals, no steering wheel. This is me taking responsibility for this decision."

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-small-car-axed-all-in-on-robotaxi-report/

May be the way Musk sees it is that Tesla can never make sensible profit margins in the small car market as they have to compete against the Chinese so is betting the company on FSD?

MeteredOut

JKenH said:

Fake news or a real issue? Either way, it’s more negativity. 

Weak mobile signals could hamper electric car charging – report

Electric vehicle (EV) drivers could struggle to use around two-thirds of Britain’s most common type of public chargepoint because of patchy mobile signals, according to a report.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/lifestyle/motors/6426066/weak-mobile-signals-could-hamper-electric-car-charging-report/

Not fake news per se, but typical EV clickbait. Might as well be "Weak mobile signals could hamper people ordering Uber Eats".

JKenH

michaels said:

JKenH said:

Two related articles from Drive. While Elon Musk has accused Reuters of “lying” in reporting that the new Tesla small car has been canned, there may be some substance in the story. Previously there had been discussion within Tesla around whether the next new vehicle should purely be a robotaxi but executives had convinced Mr Musk to develop a platform capable of being delivered as a drivers car or robotaxi or both. At one stage it seemed like the next vehicle would be the Model 2 but now that may have changed in the face of Chinese competition with the emphasis on development now swinging back to the robotaxi. All speculation of course. 

Tesla autonomous ‘robotaxi’ to be unveiled in August – Elon Musk

Tesla plans to unveil its new 'robotaxi' – an autonomous compact car without a steering wheel or pedals – on 8 August 2024, company CEO Elon Musk has announced.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-robotaxi-unveiled-in-august-musk/

Tesla’s $US25,000 small car axed to go all-in on autonomous taxi – report

A new report has claimed plans for the cheapest and smallest Tesla electric vehicle yet have been scrapped to focus on an autonomous version without a steering wheel or pedals.

According to an internal memo seen by the news agency's sources, the unnamed manager of the vehicle program said "suppliers should halt all further activities related to H422/NV91," referring to the external and internal codenames respectively for the project.

In his biography of the executive released last year, author Walter Isaacson – who shadowed the Tesla boss for two years – wrote of Musk's desire in 2022 to skip the more conventional model, and develop the small car as an autonomous vehicle only.

But top Tesla executives – including design boss Franz von Holzhausen, and vehicle engineering chief Lars Moravy – convinced Musk to play it safe and offer two versions.

"We want to make sure we are assessing the risk with you. If we go down a path of having no steering wheel, and FSD [Full Self-Driving] is not ready, we won't be able to put them on the road ... our proposal is to bake them in right now but remove them when we are allowed to," von Holzhausen reportedly told Musk in a 2022 meeting.

Musk is said to have shaken his head – and when assured the driver controls could be "small" and removed "pretty easily" – the outspoken Tesla CEO reportedly said: "No. No. NO ... No mirrors, no pedals, no steering wheel. This is me taking responsibility for this decision."

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-small-car-axed-all-in-on-robotaxi-report/

May be the way Musk sees it is that Tesla can never make sensible profit margins in the small car market as they have to compete against the Chinese so is betting the company on FSD?

That’s what I was thinking but if Tesla can’t make a small EV profitably I doubt any of the OEMs will be able to. 

JKenH

MeteredOut said:

)JKenH said:

Fake news or a real issue? Either way, it’s more negativity. 

Weak mobile signals could hamper electric car charging – report

Electric vehicle (EV) drivers could struggle to use around two-thirds of Britain’s most common type of public chargepoint because of patchy mobile signals, according to a report.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/lifestyle/motors/6426066/weak-mobile-signals-could-hamper-electric-car-charging-report/

Not fake news per se, but typical EV clickbait. Might as well be "Weak mobile signals could hamper people ordering Uber Eats".

I’ve never used Uber Eats and I expect I will get through my life without having to. One can’t say that about charging an EV once you’ve got one. If you don’t have a mobile signal (that must be rare) then you are stuffed when an app is needed. And TBH there is still a significant part of the population who might own a smart phone e.g. because their son or daughter has bought them one but aren’t that savvy as to be able to download and use apps.*

I think all chargers should be contactless and same price to all users - no ifs, no buts. It removes one more argument against EVs. The industry is not helping itself. For the future, build into all new EVs some means of identifying themselves electronically and have one network of chargers which can talk to all the cars with contactless as an option for older cars or for when the system (inevitably) fails. Why can Tesla make it so simple when others can’t?

Edit: *you can still buy sim cards without data which for some people are a cheap option and, yes, people who drive cars are often counting the pennies in other areas (and perhaps less likely to have access to home charging). I have elderly friends who are paranoid about cyber security who just refuse to have a smart phone. The very fact we are on this forum suggests we are not part of that cohort but the EV industry shouldn’t ignore others who are. 

silvercar

All new chargers and existing fast chargers have to accept contactless, DfT rules came in to play late 2023.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jesse-norman-government-department-for-transport-dft-technology-b2373827.html

MeteredOut

silvercar said:

All new chargers and existing fast chargers have to accept contactless, DfT rules came in to play late 2023.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jesse-norman-government-department-for-transport-dft-technology-b2373827.html

This is how it should be - same as driving up to a petrol station and paying for legacy fuel.

It's a pity they don't mandate they have to work

JKenH

silvercar said:

All new chargers and existing fast chargers have to accept contactless, DfT rules came in to play late 2023.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jesse-norman-government-department-for-transport-dft-technology-b2373827.html

Just to clarify, the requirement in relation to existing chargers being contactless applies to rapid (rather than fast) chargers. In relation to new chargers the contactless requirement applies to those over 8kW. There is no obligation to provide contactless facilities at 7kW chargers (which are usually categorised as “fast”). For most long duration public charging, which is what will generally be used by those without home charging, there is, therefore, no requirement for a contactless facility. Even the 150 7kW chargers installed at the NEC require an app. 

Grumpy_chap

Away for work right now, 159 miles to the hotel from home, pretty much all motorway.  I'm optimistic that I might make the return without needing to charge, but the sensible side of me says to go for a ""splash-and-dash" or even a full charge regardless.  I still have "free" miles of charge from Tesla available to use, so risking it is daft.  It depends a bit on what time I get away from the office tomorrow evening - I'll certainly stop on route, but if it is a late departure, then I'll be doing a longer stop to eat in any case and a charge will take no time in addition.

There is one charge point at the hotel.  I won't use it as I'd have to pay.  There is a couple parked there with an A-Class (possibly PHEV rather than EV, I don't know).  I assume, given how long they were faffing about and how quickly they moved off, that charge point may well be out of service.

I also want to mention something very odd - and, frankly, quite dangerous that happened on route.  Happily driving along when suddenly there was unusual music blaring and multi-coloured flashing lights across the screen.  No idea what it was, no idea why it started or why it stopped.  Very distracting though and quite worrying.  

silverwhistle

MeteredOut said:

Not fake news per se, but typical EV clickbait. Might as well be "Weak mobile signals could hamper people ordering Uber Eats".

I'd be more concerned about poor signals for smart meters. 

JKenH said:

Edit: *you can still buy sim cards without data which for some people are a cheap option and, yes, people who drive cars are often counting the pennies in other areas (and perhaps less likely to have access to home charging). I have elderly friends who are paranoid about cyber security who just refuse to have a smart phone. The very fact we are on this forum suggests we are not part of that cohort but the EV industry shouldn’t ignore others who are. 

For all the need to improve charging, particularly for those that don't have home charging, highlighting an edge case like this is more scare-mongering frankly. If people are counting their pennies so much that they don't have data on their phones they are unlikely to have an EV, or a car even, or function well at all in this modern world. I pay £6 a month on Giff Gaff and never reach my data limit. Overstating the case really doesn't give it more weight as an impediment to the introduction of EVs

Contactless, RFID cards, automated systems are all likely to be diffuse before this ever becomes a problem for people: not a century let alone a cohort!