EV Discussion thread

EricMears

NoobSolar said:

Ericmears: get a Zappi?

To save paying an extortionate 8.25p per kWh ?  I don't think so !

Martyn1981

I thought I might post this news item on here, as it's not really news, and tbh, not even real.

For some reason, despite BEV's having a lower incidence of fire, AXA decided they wanted to demonstrate a thermal runaway form a crashed BEV, so took out the batts, and installed some pyrotechnics, to demonstrate ......... well, to be honest, I haven't got a clue what they are now demonstrating, other than perhaps how to get sued?

We are truly living in weird times.

PS Check out the underside of the Tesla as it flips, looks like it held up fine to the abuse.
PPS As an aside, BEV's are actually pretty hard to rollover, and stay upside down (when they have a batt in place).
PPPS The story/video is now doing the rounds without the information that it's staged.

Watch: Confirmed fake Tesla Model S “battery fire” video from AXA Insurance

There are times when the Tesla news beat comes up with strange stories. Over the years, I’ve covered a number of these, from EV charging stalls being filled with uncooked ground meat to strange attacks on Teslas just because of hatred towards Elon Musk. Even among these, however, the recent “battery fire” demonstration from AXA Insurance is something else — just for how ridiculous it is. 

The premise of AXA Insurance’s test was simple — EV batteries could catch fire in the event of a crash. As noted in my colleague Johnna Crider’s earlier piece, AXA accomplished this by removing the battery in a Tesla Model S sedan and fitting the vehicle with pyrotechnics. This way, the demonstration was “safe” and AXA could be ensured that a “battery fire” would indeed happen. 

The best thing about this whole situation was that AXA flat-out admitted to this. “For safety reasons, it was not possible to ignite a real battery fire at an event with around 500 people, which is why a fire with pyrotechnics was staged,” the insurance provider explained. 

Solarchaser

Grumpy_chap said:

silverwhistle said:

Capital costs are an issue, 

This has become startlingly so recently.
In summer 2021, the cheapest Tesla was a tad under £35k.
Today, that same car is not far short of £50k.

I know there are extraordinary circumstances affecting car supply across the board, but that type of price movement simply can't be sustainable.

I'm not sure that's quite right.
The Tesla prices have indeed shot up, but not quite that much.
Several of my colleagues got the lowest priced tesla between March and June last year and it was £42k now it's £48.5k, so a 6.5k jump, which is hefty, but not quite as bad as the £15k you were suggesting. 

It has however put the Tesla out of range for my company,  so new starts in mid 22 will no longer be able to get a Tesla, but can still get the merc eqa which is £46.5k

Solarchaser

michaels said:

70sbudgie said:

My servicing and insurance costs are also lower with my EV than they were for my previous car. The one exception is if a tyre needs replacing. EV need special tyres and replacing a pair recently almost killed the previous year's savings!

What EV is that, mine just takes normal tyres

Yep, put normal tyres on the leaf.

However when replacing tyres on the tesla, kwik fit would only fit 1 brand... which I was happy with as they are good tyres, so it seems manufacturer specific

Martyn1981

Solarchaser said:

Grumpy_chap said:

silverwhistle said:

Capital costs are an issue, 

This has become startlingly so recently.
In summer 2021, the cheapest Tesla was a tad under £35k.
Today, that same car is not far short of £50k.

I know there are extraordinary circumstances affecting car supply across the board, but that type of price movement simply can't be sustainable.

I'm not sure that's quite right.
The Tesla prices have indeed shot up, but not quite that much.
Several of my colleagues got the lowest priced tesla between March and June last year and it was £42k now it's £48.5k, so a 6.5k jump, which is hefty, but not quite as bad as the £15k you were suggesting. 

It has however put the Tesla out of range for my company,  so new starts in mid 22 will no longer be able to get a Tesla, but can still get the merc eqa which is £46.5k

Yep, I challenged his prices at the time. The TM3 was just over £40k in 2020, not £35k in 2021, and rose to about £42k early this year, before the massive jump in Apr(ish), when the UK supply was obliterated by the Covid shutdown in China (Apr). And whilst arrivals in Aug/Sep should be better, they will again be impacted by reduced production in the first month of the quarter (when China exports production) due to the stoppages to upgrade line production/speed. Good news, Shanghai reportedly now has a capacity of ~23k cars per week.

Maybe things will improve when supply and demand come together, or at the least get a bit closer, and the prices of components, especially lithium reduce a bit.

The TM3 is now almost the same price as the TMY, so presumably it needs to go back down a bit, especially now that the SR TMY is available for UK buyers, at ~£6k less than the previous cheapest model the LR.

Solarchaser

I think this thread was initially intended as a vent your spleen about crappy charging infrastructure type of thing.

I had some crappy charging experiences last week, so I'm here to vent.

Last week I went for a drive around the north of Scotland, I met up with some like minded folks at Tyndrum where there are 2x 50kw chargers.
Unfortunately 1 would not connect, and the other was occupied, annoying, but i had plenty of charge, and always build in some contingency when journeying with gas guzzling friends, so onto Mallaig on the west coast of Scotland, its beautiful if you haven't been white sandy beaches like you would find on the most beautiful Spanish coasts, and here was the view from the hotel window, window included as proof 😁

The hotel coincidentally had a free 7kw charger listed, happy days.
Unfortunately the 7kw charger was actually only a 3kw charger, so instead of getting a full charge overnight I only had a half, but there is a 50kw charger in Mallaig too, so down I went in the morning to top up, but once again I could not connect, a tad frustrating. 
Anyway over the water on a calmac ferry to beautiful Skye and a charger at Broadford, connection no problem, but a half hour of chatting while my like minded individuals waited on me topping up. 
Back onto the mainland and up to the stunning Doherty viewpoint 

And then onto ullapool where chargers connected no bother.
The rest of the trip I used chargers at Lairg, Ullapool, John o groats and tongue with no issue at all, and over the piece my strike rate was 12 good to 3 bad, but the 3 bad is what this thread is for, so I figured I'd lay the failures out for all to see.


(When I say I couldn't connect I mean the rfid card, nor the app, nor the call centre could get them going)

Solarchaser

Martyn1981 said:

Solarchaser said:

Grumpy_chap said:

silverwhistle said:

Capital costs are an issue, 

This has become startlingly so recently.
In summer 2021, the cheapest Tesla was a tad under £35k.
Today, that same car is not far short of £50k.

I know there are extraordinary circumstances affecting car supply across the board, but that type of price movement simply can't be sustainable.

I'm not sure that's quite right.
The Tesla prices have indeed shot up, but not quite that much.
Several of my colleagues got the lowest priced tesla between March and June last year and it was £42k now it's £48.5k, so a 6.5k jump, which is hefty, but not quite as bad as the £15k you were suggesting. 

It has however put the Tesla out of range for my company,  so new starts in mid 22 will no longer be able to get a Tesla, but can still get the merc eqa which is £46.5k

Yep, I challenged his prices at the time. The TM3 was just over £40k in 2020, not £35k in 2021, and rose to about £42k early this year, before the massive jump in Apr(ish), when the UK supply was obliterated by the Covid shutdown in China (Apr). And whilst arrivals in Aug/Sep should be better, they will again be impacted by reduced production in the first month of the quarter (when China exports production) due to the stoppages to upgrade line production/speed. Good news, Shanghai reportedly now has a capacity of ~23k cars per week.

Maybe things will improve when supply and demand come together, or at the least get a bit closer, and the prices of components, especially lithium reduce a bit.

The TM3 is now almost the same price as the TMY, so presumably it needs to go back down a bit, especially now that the SR TMY is available for UK buyers, at ~£6k less than the previous cheapest model the LR.

Yeah I seen your as usual very detailed post after I'd posted my reply, id sought out this thread really just to put my negative charging experiences in, so didn't even take note of when the posts were 😳

Thanks Mart 👍

Hexane

Grumpy_chap said:

shinytop said:

That's shocking.  Are other brands increasing too?  If not, why would anyone buy a Tesla?    

Yes, I understand the price of most cars has increased out of all proportion to anything else.  I only gave one example that I had accurate numbers for.

shinytop said:

Sadly I can't have a smart meter so 2p a mile is fantasy.  

This is actually a query I have about how accurate the low EV running costs that are sometimes quoted are.

Some have solar, which is great.  But if not used to charge EV, that free solar could be used for another purpose (or sold).  Saying the EV was "free" is not quite right in that case.

It would be in my case, because I'm still on deemed export... I don't think I'm the only one...

Grumpy_chap

I have just been sent a marketing mailing that the AMI is now available for test drive at the local Citroen dealership. 
I was not aware it was even being launched to the UK yet.
There is a lot I like about this little concept, but also a lot of ways in which it is compromised and could never be an only car.
https://www.charterscitroen.com/new-cars/ami/

Martyn1981

I think this is more a discussion item than news. It suggests that the transition to BEV's could be derailed by high leccy prices. I'm not convinced, or to be more precise, demand is high, supply is still low, so a temporary (5yrs?) high leccy price as a function of gas prices and reduced supply shouldn't really be an issue. Though if the problem was expected to last into the medium term, then perhaps, but it seems that some in Germany are overly concerned .... I think.

Just to say, I also appreciate the impact on disposable income, and a potential recession, but that would be an impact on car sales, not BEV's specifically, so may not impact the percentage of BEV's and its growth, though the absolute sales of cars/BEV's may fall.

Soaring energy costs could threaten future of electric cars, experts warn

Soaring energy costs are threatening the future of the electric car, industry bosses in Germany have warned.
A rise in electricity prices as well as in raw material costs and availability, a chronic shortage of parts, and a widespread reduction in disposable income are having a considerable impact on the production and sales of cars.